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cheap 'effective' stack for studying and memory
#11
Thanks Renton, Hanns. Good to get some uncomplicated unbiased thoughts here. Much appreciated.
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#12
I think choline doesn't cross the BBB, it might be useless.

Have you tried centrophenoxine? That has some effect on it's own & it may be a choline source. It may cause jaw tightness in large doses and/or combined with other noots.

My regular stack is centrum performance multi-vit (high b vits + gingko, ginseng), ginkgo, noopept, sulbutiamine & centrophenoxine. I usually take them separately through the day.

I'd rather eat oily fish than processed fish oil, especially if the fish oil is in capsules, it could be old rancid fish oil. Just a couple of portions of oily fish (sardines, mackerel, salmon, etc) a week should be more omega 3s than daily supplements provide & there's plenty of other good stuff in fish too.
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#13
(28-10-2014, 01:40 AM)Passiflora Wrote: I think choline doesn't cross the BBB, it might be useless.

Have you tried centrophenoxine? That has some effect on it's own & it may be a choline source. It may cause jaw tightness in large doses and/or combined with other noots.

I'd rather eat oily fish than processed fish oil, especially if the fish oil is in capsules, it could be old rancid fish oil. Just a couple of portions of oily fish (sardines, mackerel, salmon, etc) a week should be more omega 3s than daily supplements provide & there's plenty of other good stuff in fish too.

My experience with choline supplements has been null at best.  But i take a supplement daily that contains 365mg (per capsule, and I take 2 in the morning) Choline Bitartrate and have found no negative side-effects.  Atm I typically am taking 400mg piracetam a day (plus 50mg armodafinil twice, once at 9AM then again midday), sometimes 800mg piracetam but dont find a benefit unless i'm doing an all-nighter working on something.

If I were more into nootropics I would test this further and document results, but I'm not.  Longecity is probably a better place to ask.

If centrophenoxine appears to work, but causes jaw tightness, try a supplement alongside with some magnesium content.
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#14
Lower doses of centrophenoxine still seem to work without any jaw tightness at all, as long as it's under 0.5g a day I seem OK, there's other less noticeable side effects from taking too much of it too, so I'll stick to under 0.5g. Centrophenoxine & DMAE (a metabolic product of centro? available separately too) can cross the BBB, could possibly be choline sources.

I have long breaks off centro too, just order 25g when it's cheap(er) on ebay, do about 0.5g a day until it's gone, then give it a rest for some months.

I doubt there's any negative side effects to choline, except paying money for something that does nothing.

I'm undecided on centrophenoxine now, there's not enough research & I've seen some conflicting things, like with most nootropics. Going to stop taking any supplements now, I don't need them.
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#15
Just starting piracetam 800mg's. Not sure if I will get a huge benefit or it will be a placebo but will keep us posted.
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#16
I'm going to finish my remaining noopept & sulbutiamine, they both seem fairly benign & there is some limited evidence for a beneficial effect. Not going to order any more & I'll take them less often, any effect they're having on me now seems to be minimal.

If you get anything off piracetam then you might notice a slightly stronger effect from much smaller doses of noopept. It does seem to be the cheapest & most effective nootropic, imo. It's easy to import Russian pharmaceutical grade packaged noopept pills, it's sold in every pharmacy there without prescription, afaik. It's also sold as cheap bulk powder. I've been using the powder, most of it seems ok, but one batch produced a slight burning sensation if put under the tongue.

Centrophenoxine has been binned. AFAIK all the good claims for that have been debunked, it's related to dmae & a pesticide. It does something, but I think it's maybe more toxic than beneficial, the jaw tightness & stuff at higher doses is unpleasant & I don't think there's any need for a choline supplement anyway.

Also binning 5htp, l-tryptophan & acetyl-l-tyrosine. Sad to throw money away like that, but none of those agreed with me.

Ordered some undenatured whey protein, going to try 50g of that a day, main thing I need to do is gain some weight. Protein has always seemed to help my brain too, but I'm a little wary of isolated amino acids, should be able to make sure I'm getting enough of all of them from whey protein.
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#17
Yes previous experiments with noopept, ani, sulbutiamine and choline seemed unremarkable. Personally I think the brain works pretty well already if you take care of it, but I thought I'd give it onwe last chance.
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#18
There's very little evidence to say any nootropic does anything for healthy minds. I think the noopept helped me a bit at first & sulbutiamine too, but I have autoimmune disease, it was causing problems. They seem to do little now, whatever they were going to do has happened for me, imo.

Just saving the sulbutiamine & noopept for one off uses, like comedowns & disease flare-ups.

Main thing is getting a healthy diet, then no supplements are needed. I need to find ways to eat more & bulk up a bit though, maybe reverse some deficiency problems from my years of coeliac disease. So I'm going for whey protein - the undenatured 82% stuff, so it should still have plenty of vitamins, minerals & trace elements in it, along with antioxidants like glutathione.
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#19
That's what I think Passiflora, a healthy mind needs few additives, more the right kind of stimulation. Good luck with the protein. I met someone once who burnt out his adrenals and basically went from vegan to finding the only thing that helped was paleo style diet. I'm still not sure about the a nine and I'm guessing you've tried it already, but if not it might be worth a bash in case you have any deficiency(maybe magnesium too). Not that I'm a dietitician or anything.

So far one day in I feel more alert, but don't think I could separate it from a placebo effect. I guess mi never will be able to personally but perhaps some day a bit of hard evidence will validate the whole racetam thing. Till then I guess we can't know.
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#20
Just a quick thought on the whole choline discussion have you tried different forms of choline such as citicoline or alpha-gpc? In particular alpha-gpc as that crosses the blood brain barrier quite quickly.

On a side note vinpocetine is much better for negating brainfog and headache rather than choline.

For a hard evidence nootropic look up Neural Stem Inc. and their clinical trials on NSI-189
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CTHighstreet
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Cognition Tuning

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