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RCs and nootropics: a male thing?
#21
Just look at the shroomery and youll see why women hide their gender.
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#22
(08-04-2016, 12:01 AM)J.S. Wrote: Well I have a week off from my work. And I am so very tired. I sleep without anything, no benzo, no nothing. It is the work and the culture where I work now. And PC, telling  others how to behave, almost how to think is overboard there.

On the plus side, some females have told me they find me a fresh wind. They love my contrarian views and humour which is so incorrect they feel ashamed that they had to laigh so hard. It are mostly very racist and female debunking jokes. Which they do not expect from a person who is close to Anarchosyndicalism. THey KNOW I mean the complete opposite and that I am not like that at all.

Insofar as making racist and misogynistic jokes is an activity that racists and misogynists engage in, it would seem that you are actually like that in some respects. Oddly enough I've found that avoiding racist and misogynistic behaviour, including supposedly ironic jokes and calling people out on this stuff - being sincere in other words - is way more likely to be seen as contrary than the reflexive irony that's the dominant form of humour in modern Western culture.

I'm sure puncturing the inflated self importance of people like me - who think that it's a way of continuing to assert control over social groups that have become more equal, of saying racist and misogynistic things without needing to think of yourself as a racist or misogynist - must be fun. You rebel, you.

Quote:They see in arguments how I am seriously worried about Palestinians and how I feel ashamed for us getting so upset over 9-11 while we didn't gave A DAMN about what happened 6 yrs earlier in Rwanda. 1 million dead, but black so who cared.

Adam Curtis (the documentary maker) suggests that the reason for the lack of response was a shift in the way news was constructed following the end of the Cold War. Without the overarching First World Capitalism vs Communism framework, the complexity of world events became increasingly difficult for news organisations to get any kind of handle on. They used to explain the meaning of events, but it turned out that nobody really knew why anything happened but a lot of it was horrible and there didn't seem to be any response people could give to these incomprehensible and terrible things than to watch the news and say "oh dear".

So when the Rwandan genocide happened and there was already one big complicated civil war going on (or several wars happening in close proximity ) in the former Yugoslavia, it got ignored because the news didn't understand it and was already dealing with horror elsewhere.

I don't think it's because the Rwandan dead were black. There Ethiopian famine in 1984 to 85 was massive news (in the UK at least) and resulted in Live Aid, a massive fund-raising effort. I mean Live Aid is problematic in many ways, but it doesn't suggest a racist blindness to African suffering.

Quote: That is how we all reacted. When people are killed and slaughtered by the 1000s in the Middle East, civilians, we don't care much. But when it happens in  Paris or Brussels, it is so awful. It becomes politically  incorrect to point people at the response on 34 Iraqi Civilians died per day for 6 years in a row by our western troops. No: you can't say that.The 1500 women and children that died in 2014 by Israel in  Gaza in August didn't even  register. it isn't evben in  the news.

Attention isn't devoted to things based on their importance according to some objective measurement, but based on their subjective importance. People who live similar lives to us being killed close by feels like more of a threat than people whose lives are rather different and who are a long way away. What's important here and now isn't ever going to be an objective and dispassionate evaluation. I might think that road safety is more important an issue than violent crime, but I'm not going to ask my mugger to sign a petition to get slower speed limits.


Quote:So when a Dutch plane is crashed by Russians or Ukranians and the week long daily coverage on  every bodybag brought in and the 3 minutes silence at my work, I did not join in. And the 1 minute silence for Paris: I didn't join in. I went on  with  what I do because I refuse to accept such biased behaviour as somehow the correct thing to do.

You sure showed those dead people and their grieving relatives. Showing respect for the well-reported dead doesn't take away respect for the dead without column inches. I thought you wanted all deaths to be equally important, but clearly you want them to be equally unimportant.


Quote:So when I say that someone is a nice guy indeed, but remains black they know where it comes from and why. It is a joke because people do not expect such a remark from someone with such politcal stances like me.

You don't think making a racist joke is a political act?

Quote:Same on females and their bodies. While I love them and can't take my eyes of them at times, I respect them and am far more emancipated than by far the most people. But I refuse to give up my personal way of expressing myself, of saying how I feel based on  a nations or companies supposed correctness. And I tell these females openly how I and many men also have our nature of admiring the female exterior which at times is like a magnet. A see many actually like that and seem to understand many of us work that way. It is harmless too and not disrespectful at all.
 

Well, women are often socialised to not make men feel bad by overtly rejecting them. Because what men fear about rejection is being laughed at, but what women fear about rejecting men is violence. .

Quote:On the plus side, some women have told me that my view on things  (also risktaking) is changing them. What is really peculiar is that three, independant of eachother have said in arguments that they noticed a thought that occurs....here it comes "What would J.S. say?". Because they no longer agree with someones stance based on my thoughts but they used to think that way. When I heard one woman telling me this,  I was surprised and ssaid it to an inlaw. And she said she in fact had the exact same thoughts every now and then. And then another girl at my work (former coworker) agreed that she on many occasions thinks about what I said.

So apparantly there are more people who agree with taking a stand against many of these mainstream thoughts that dictate how others should feel or express themselves.

Your views are mainstream. That's why you're able to make your jokes and objectify women without any real consequences.
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#23
(08-04-2016, 01:37 PM)niflheim Wrote:
(08-04-2016, 12:01 AM)J.S. Wrote: Well I have a week off from my work. And I am so very tired. I sleep without anything, no benzo, no nothing. It is the work and the culture where I work now. And PC, telling  others how to behave, almost how to think is overboard there.

On the plus side, some females have told me they find me a fresh wind. They love my contrarian views and humour which is so incorrect they feel ashamed that they had to laigh so hard. It are mostly very racist and female debunking jokes. Which they do not expect from a person who is close to Anarchosyndicalism. THey KNOW I mean the complete opposite and that I am not like that at all.

Insofar as making racist and misogynistic jokes is an activity that racists and misogynists engage in, it would seem that you are actually like that in some respects. Oddly enough I've found that avoiding racist and misogynistic behaviour, including supposedly ironic jokes and calling people out on this stuff - being sincere in other words - is way more likely to be seen as contrary than the reflexive irony that's the dominant form of humour in modern Western culture.

I'm sure puncturing the inflated self importance of people like me -  who think that it's a way of continuing to assert control over social groups that have become more equal, of saying racist and misogynistic things without needing to think of yourself as a racist or misogynist - must be fun. You rebel, you.

Quote:They see in arguments how I am seriously worried about Palestinians and how I feel ashamed for us getting so upset over 9-11 while we didn't gave A DAMN about what happened 6 yrs earlier in Rwanda. 1 million dead, but black so who cared.

Adam Curtis (the documentary maker) suggests that the reason for the lack of response was a shift in the way news was constructed following the end of the Cold War. Without the overarching First World Capitalism vs Communism framework, the complexity of world events became increasingly difficult for news organisations to get any kind of handle on. They used to explain the meaning of events, but it turned out that nobody really knew why anything happened but a lot of it was horrible and there didn't seem to be any response people could give to these incomprehensible and terrible things than to watch the news and say "oh dear".

So when the Rwandan genocide happened and there was already one big complicated civil war going on  (or several wars happening in close proximity ) in the former Yugoslavia, it got ignored because the news didn't understand it and was already dealing with horror elsewhere.

I don't think it's because the Rwandan dead were black. There Ethiopian famine in 1984 to 85 was massive news (in the UK at least) and resulted in Live Aid, a massive fund-raising effort. I mean Live Aid is problematic in many ways, but it doesn't suggest a racist blindness to African suffering.

Quote: That is how we all reacted. When people are killed and slaughtered by the 1000s in the Middle East, civilians, we don't care much. But when it happens in  Paris or Brussels, it is so awful. It becomes politically  incorrect to point people at the response on 34 Iraqi Civilians died per day for 6 years in a row by our western troops. No: you can't say that.The 1500 women and children that died in 2014 by Israel in  Gaza in August didn't even  register. it isn't evben in  the news.

Attention isn't devoted to things based on their importance according to some objective measurement, but based on their subjective importance. People who live similar lives to us being killed close by feels like more of a threat than people whose lives are rather different and who are a long way away. What's important here and now isn't ever going to be an objective and dispassionate evaluation. I might think that road safety is more important an issue than violent crime, but I'm not going to ask my mugger to sign a petition to get slower speed limits.


Quote:So when a Dutch plane is crashed by Russians or Ukranians and the week long daily coverage on  every bodybag brought in and the 3 minutes silence at my work, I did not join in. And the 1 minute silence for Paris: I didn't join in. I went on  with  what I do because I refuse to accept such biased behaviour as somehow the correct thing to do.

You sure showed those dead people and their grieving relatives. Showing respect for the well-reported dead doesn't take away respect for the dead without column inches. I thought you wanted all deaths to be equally important, but clearly you want them to be equally unimportant.


Quote:So when I say that someone is a nice guy indeed, but remains black they know where it comes from and why. It is a joke because people do not expect such a remark from someone with such politcal stances like me.

You don't think making a racist joke is a political act?

Quote:Same on females and their bodies. While I love them and can't take my eyes of them at times, I respect them and am far more emancipated than by far the most people. But I refuse to give up my personal way of expressing myself, of saying how I feel based on  a nations or companies supposed correctness. And I tell these females openly how I and many men also have our nature of admiring the female exterior which at times is like a magnet. A see many actually like that and seem to understand many of us work that way. It is harmless too and not disrespectful at all.
 

Well, women are often socialised to not make men feel bad by overtly rejecting them. Because what men fear about rejection is being laughed at, but what women fear about rejecting men is violence. .

Quote:On the plus side, some women have told me that my view on things  (also risktaking) is changing them. What is really peculiar is that three, independant of eachother have said in arguments that they noticed a thought that occurs....here it comes "What would J.S. say?". Because they no longer agree with someones stance based on my thoughts but they used to think that way. When I heard one woman telling me this,  I was surprised and ssaid it to an inlaw. And she said she in fact had the exact same thoughts every now and then. And then another girl at my work (former coworker) agreed that she on many occasions thinks about what I said.

So apparantly there are more people who agree with taking a stand against many of these mainstream thoughts that dictate how others should feel or express themselves.

Your views are mainstream. That's why you're able to make your jokes and objectify women without any real consequences.

That fact that someone, male or female, notices the exterior of another person and consistently finds it beautiful or attractive does not mean you now made an object out of them. If you would only do that and have  no consideration  for the rest or in  fact cannot consider anything but the visual aspect you are very  close to psychopathy in which the person does not (cannot) attach value to living things, their feelings, their thoughts. It is why they kill them with ease or pleasure and they only have a function  for this persons pleasure.

When a person also notices that he loves women, especially or also the outside or the looks that is just that. It does not detract for the respect, the interest for the thoughts or anything else that also comes with that person. However: when you are on a street and females pass you by the  only thing you can see is that exterior. It still does not mean they are now objects, but the visual part is the only thing you can truely assess if you want to. I added that ""wanting" is not even in order. The assessment in me is a fully automated system I have  little control over. And sure, when the woman is supersexy  there is this instinct coming up that has a sole focus. Still: it is not that this instinct is the constant dominating thing even  with such  a woman. If someone finds that immoral or wrong, that is fine with me but it seems you are in another way looking at me onedimensionally very much what objectifying seems to mean too...isn't it. You simply deny the possibility of any other views I can have.

My remarks are mostly not of a political nature and I am not the one who says I am a rebel. If you read better I am not saying that at all, it is more the other way around: it is strange that even my benign thoughts mostly (eben though I would consider myself closest to anarchosyndicalism) are considered rebelious by  others. An eyeopener. It says little about me, but as you state correctly  these thoughts are so common it is strange that where I work now such contrary thoughts are considered " a fresh wind".

What is political and addresses the point of PC  in the literal sense, a term  in itself abused to say the most immoral things to my mind  btw,  is our stance towards the deaths of fellow human beings and how we assess them as a nation  or a western  culture. Mind you of the 300 people that died in a that crash in the Ukraine of course not one family member was present. The shocking thing is that extensive and unabated media coverage made it as if people just lost a familymember. And the lack of anything remotely similar to the many civiliandeaths by our own  hands, via our stateterrorism is just not even worht a second thought. Just before the recent  Paris atttacks there was this one in  Beyrouth. Not a single person at my office, not a single person in my vicinity even said a single word about it. And that was IS too.
If there was family hurting by a loss of a loved one of course I would consider that and of course my views are so important that they need to cross the feelings of people that are demonstrably  hurt by what happened. And I did not go on with my work while others where keeping a 1 minute or 3 minute silence. I respected their need for silence, but I did not join  them and I just walked away going for a supermarket to get some lunch.

Of course they asked me why I did not join and I said that I respected their feelings, but to me personally I would feel a true hypocrite since so many people right at this moment are killed by us as westerners in  the Middle East via our Armies. And that I feel that we brought all of this upon us by  invading a souvereign state on one hand and we do nothing against an occupying nation in  the very same region on the other that is killing people on massive scales as an occupyer. We did not get what we deserve, because no one deserves to be killed period. But we can understand that some people target us in their frustration and anger over us and our behaviour in their countries.

What is truely political incorrect to my mind is how we assessed the situation in Rwanda. Ethiopia got attention as there was little else going on  in the world. We had the Union  Carbide disaster in Bhopal, which was localised and short of duration confined to some people in a city in India. But that was about it. When  it came to Rwanda there was some competition. Two civil wars and oneof which got the most attention, the other was far more deadly. Our armies did not put full force into Rwanda, they did so in  Yugoslavia. And our newsagencies did report endlessly on Yugoslavia and Kosovo as they knew we would be interested in that, we would not be so interested in Rwanda. And that repeated itself in Southern Sudan etc. There was some attention, but not nearly as much when it deals with European or American (western matters) or when it deals with countries we feel religious connections too (in  short: Israel).
That kind of biased attention to my mind is truely incorrect. at least. And people lately voicing it is only normal makes it even worse to me. Or people saying Muslims raped a 1000 women in Koeln. Oh...so we do not need any evidence do we? Anyone already got in court and sanctioned? But we know it were Muslims. or even worse: we know this was done on that scale by refugees? Truely incorrect and broadly stated by the same people at my work.

So when  people claim things I simply ask about the facts.
"Most of those refugees are here for the money!"
Me: "was there a poll held and did a majority of them admit this?"
"of course not! But we know it is true. it is why they all come to northern Europe and not to their neighbours!"
"So you don't know, you just come uip with another statement. Right: how many refugees are currently in which  country then?"
"Ehhhh.....most are going to us!"
"No: most are in Lebanon, Jordania and Turkey. It is a huge majority, around 3 million in total. Look it up."

And you can come up with many such  examples. In this it is again  very strange I indeed am the exception  for it is so Obvious to ask people where they get their data from...

Or how dangerous terrorism is and now it is very close. It is not. It is like a shark (I mentioned that may be earlier). Everyone fears sharks, but very few get killed by them. Mosquitos are far more deadly. 

Only that is the political part, the rest is not. Political Correctness the way it is used rarely deals with politics. It deals with morals and people dictating or forcing them upon others. Like you do when  you start using valueladen terms like "objectifying" and how wrong that is. It is..to you.
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#24
I've googled stims before and see a lot of those pro-anorexia forums and tumblrs discussing 3-FPM, MPA etc. I guess it depends on your reason for doing drugs. I also find painkillers (e.g. tramadol, oxytocin) are usually more sought after by women.
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#25
Look, just came up with what happened fairly recently. It is not for my personal defense at all, but in a broader sense for you so you understand how some men unlike you can be including myself.

At my work there is a woman and she is so beautiful, guys turn their heads and tell me what they would do with her. In detail. Why? Because she and I were a team until 10 monhts ago when  I wennt for another job as I saw this part of my company fail. And yesterday she send me the message that the were to trying to sell that department (BtB sales) or quiting. This is the energymarket and there is no way this is going to be sold. Not a worry for her, she got a job in another company 2 months ago.

So what did guys say to me constantly. At least once a month for years....: "I can  understand you are Always happy at your work since you are Always close to her!"
While I saw her beauty for sure, I replied I was not interested (true) and did see it but did not look at her that way. 
That beauty of hers has seriously affected her at that company. Two managers have been fired for harrassment, one (my own her own therefor) stayed even though he told her "look, I am in love with you, I am starting up my own business and I want you to work for me and be my GF. And I am not taking no for an answer." Since he got that, this guy started to put her in a corner and make her fail. She got into a pyschological crisis and had be submitted the a spychiatric ward for 6 months and  returned after a year. 

So there is this one guy who is headoverheals into her. He is married, has two kids and is very kind to her. But after what she has gone through.....He wanted to send her a bouquet on behalf of our department with a note "get wll soon". This is a common thing to do. What is not so common  is that it consisted of only red roses (hahahahahahahahaha.....aaaarghhhh!). So when she came back she started about it and that she immediately knew that "the department" was Mr. X....
So I explained to her that he was not like others. "He simply cannot help himself, but he does mean well. I know you don't fancy him at all and he will say the same but it is just too strong for him. As a guy, I can empathise with him and I know he won't manipulate you ever." She understood. Of course i is still annoying and like we say in NL I feel embarrassed in his place for him ("Oh please, don't make such a fool out of yourself man!")....whenever he enters the room and starts talking to her, not noticing she is totally not interested...

She is one of the purest people I know. She was/is so paranoia about men that the kindest guy  she just started to date, stood by her almost not knowing her for a year when she was severly  psychiatric ill (psychotic periods!). Always being kind and nice (she told me all that afterwards) was kicked out because she thought he was a friend of that manager. For some context: the guy lives 200 km away from her and has zero affiliation with anything in my province.

So we got talking, a year ago now and I tested her sanity a bit on  this part. She had zero facts, it was all in her mind. So I told her: "If I was him, I would dump you straight away. He did nothing wrong, he Always supported you even if he did not know you and you know you were so in trouble you could not stay with your parents or even alone. Yet he sticked with you in what must have been a very difficlt situation for him too. many people would get out while they could, don't you think? Do you understand that is what has happened to him: he did all the right things, yet you suspect him of some of the worst forms of treason. I don't blame you, I understand you and this is very personal also, but can you see this angle?"

What came was a woman running in  circles in her head. Fiction and reality run amok so I decided it was much better to stop talking  about this. She was clearly not out of her psychological troubles I saw...

3 months later we had a meeting, funnily enough me in my new role which meant we now met but not as a direct team. She asked me if I would mind to drive back with her. And that was a long drive. What she told me was simply a woman showing her soul, her deepest fears, here desire to be desired, her urge that was not to be fullfilled. I saw her light, of which I got a glimpse of every now and then, shining through. What I find so beautiful about (some) women. It did not shine on me, I just watched it develop in  all the words she spoke, all the thoughts she had. Not about beautiful things or nice memories it was pretty sad to see her struggle but it was also pure and beautiful. My GF is like that too btw. All her femininity yet I was never urged to touch the rays of wishes and filled with a need for love and protection crossing by. That was not my desire, that was not my role. They weren't meant for me.
I was here for one thing and one thing only. Whatever I replied or said was unimportant. The only message I had to send to her was "I understand you, and even if I don't there is still the fact that I believe you." And so she talked on and on, we were already at my car for more than an hour and with all she said she had just one message directed at me really: I trust you completely! I found that so symbolic for this was the true basis of interpersonal communication concerning these matters. Of friendship (yet we are no friends): understanding and trusting, no power or manipulation.

And she knew I  was to be trusted as I know about how fragile she was, that I would never betray her with all the extremely personal things she said. Her desires were manyfold of course but they were also simple: she wanted to be able to love again, she wanted to be loved again....She has a very special place in my heart for she has this purity I wil never posses. One I only see in women for I see it is a truely feminine kind of pure beauty radiating from them, from her.
She also told me she wanted to be that whore in bed, to be able to be that slut that she desired that too. That she desired the pure physical side of sexuality. But that she was completely unable to even come remotely close to such intimacy. She wanted to be used as an object, but only by someone who truely loved her. In fact that could only happen with someone like that, in a soolid relationship...

So yesterday I told her about how tired I was and how difficult I found it to cope with the local culture that was such a surprise to me. She said that she really felt for me. That she knew me as always happy, witty and kind. Never a boring day, never a sad mood. Her best collegue. And that she would keep an  eye out in the next company she is going to work for because she would love to work with me again. 

I actually wanted to tell her about how I feel about her which is close to what I wrote above, but there is a very good chance she will take it the wrong way. She wil take a compliment of guy, even me, probably wrong even though I have zero intentions in that way.

when she passes by, whenshe passed me by yes I would have those thoughts you call objectyfication. But it does not exclude respect, kindness, decency at all as you can see. And I am pretty sure this is true for the majority of mean who also DO objectify women at times...
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#26
That's a lot of words.

By objectify I was referring to the bit where you talk about "females and their bodies" which you apparently are sometimes unable to prevent yourself from staring at. And you "tell these females openly" that you and "many men also have our nature of admiring the female exterior which at times is like a magnet." And apparently you consider this to be "harmless too and not disrespectful at all".

Telling a woman that you and other men like staring at her body (outside of some context where such comment is invited) is a good example of objectification. Who do you do this to? Just random women on the street? People you know?

Unwanted sexual advances and unsolicited comments on physical appearance are a frequent occurrence in many women's lives. It has nothing to do with political correctness and everything to do with not prioritising your entitlement to make comment over the people you target in this way.
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#27
So, let me get this straight, you state that misogyny is pretty common at your workplace, yet at the same time you feel that society is becoming too 'feminine' and being a misogynist is against the norm. Don't you see the contradiction here?

As another member already said, the only reason why it's OK for you and others to make racist, misogynist and homophobic remarks/jokes is because those views are mainstream, otherwise there's zero chance people with whom you interact would see them as acceptable. And I'm still trying to understand why you felt the need to make that 'confession'. What, do you feel that every female member should be aware that you're a fan of making misogynist jokes? LOL.
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#28
Dunno if this is of any interest to you, but I mentioned earlier in the thread that I started taking cdp-choline and Sominex (an anti-histamine) suddenly didn't work. After the studies I read on the benefits of choline, I couldn't believe that anticholinergics were even allowed.

Seems to be a new study to back up this theory:

https://archneur.jamanetwork.com/mobile/...id=2514553
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#29
Males have a higher risk-reward mechanism in their brain. It's scientific and its the reason why its mostly males who do drugs and seek out dangerous behavior
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#30
Any studies to back up your claims ?
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