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RCs and nootropics: a male thing?
#11
(19-03-2016, 01:24 AM)Renton Wrote:
(18-03-2016, 06:07 PM)J.S. Wrote: Whenever I look at the net and look for some clips about RCs or nootropics one thing is noticable: 95% of the time it are men. Doing this. Very few times do I see the opposite seks. When  I do. it is a doctor who warns and fears and says we need to do this and that. We should not take risks...

Is that the clue again. Are females in general much more directed at preventing harm whereas we men are more risktakers? Or are we more interested in boosting our brains?

My complaint on society, well at least in Nl is that it is becoming way too feminine for my taste. I love females, I can't take my eyes of some of their parts when well developped. I respect them etc. But I completely dislike this "do not take risks" kind of message I'm constantly getting from them is boring. So is this also the reason why females are not so much into nootropics and RCs or is this whole observation wrong?

Bear in mind on communities like this where people can mask their identity somewhat, women are less likely to expose their gender for many reasons.

Well....that is another topic very much like the one about how I look at women. But I am interested a lot in differences between the sexes. Is this true. are women more private and how do you know that?
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#12
(18-03-2016, 11:37 PM)J.S. Wrote:
(18-03-2016, 10:14 PM)niflheim Wrote:
(18-03-2016, 06:07 PM)J.S. Wrote: Whenever I look at the net and look for some clips about RCs or nootropics one thing is noticable: 95% of the time it are men. Doing this. Very few times do I see the opposite seks. When  I do. it is a doctor who warns and fears and says we need to do this and that. We should not take risks...

Is that the clue again. Are females in general much more directed at preventing harm whereas we men are more risktakers? Or are we more interested in boosting our brains?

My complaint on society, well at least in Nl is that it is becoming way too feminine for my taste. I love females, I can't take my eyes of some of their parts when well developped. I respect them etc. But I completely dislike this "do not take risks" kind of message I'm constantly getting from them is boring. So is this also the reason why females are not so much into nootropics and RCs or is this whole observation wrong?

According to the statistics, the gender split is about 2:1 men to women for NPS. Women are less likely to disclose their gender online. There are different social pressures on men and women which probably feeds into how individuals perceive and evaluate risk, but it's unlikely to be so simple as men are risktakers and women are not, more that women who take risks are judged more harshly than men who do the same.

By the way, objectifying women in the same breath as you declare your respect for them is unlikely to help women feel comfortable in disclosing their gender. I would guess that most women who could have something to add to the conversation would prefer to be valued for the perspectives they bring to the table, their knowledge and how the articulate their experience,  rather than the fact they have secondary sexual characteristics that you may find aesthetcially pleasing.

First part agreed.

Second part. All that is sure is that you cannot be respectful while noting or focussing on so called "secondary sexual characteristics", since you seem to exclude the option that these two can go together well. People, men and women are multifaceted with many sides.
I can happily take women and what they say serious, converse or debate with them just like I do with men. In fact this subject is one I have talked about with women many times. I am straightforward. But physical attraction and focus does not exclude the other views at all.

But indeed I love these Roxy Music lines from Ladytron:
I find some,
way of connection.
Hiding my intention,
Then I move up close too you....
I'll use you
I'll confuse you
Then I'll lose you
Still you won't suspect me...

If the attraction is purely physical that is how I am. I spot female contours really from 100s metres away, my eyes lock in on boobs in miliseconds. It is not what I want them to do, they do. And I need no one to be like me to simply accept me as I am, but indeed all my  friends and male collegues are like that. And surely we talk about women without a single bit of respect, how we would do them. And we laugh hard, that we are all having this onedimensional view and we accept it as being males. Even a Jehovah witness has trouble with it. He is constantly smiling and tells us "but I am not supposed to be like that!" He is a walking conflict when it comes to women and the problem is: women really like him physically. May be they are just being disrepectful! I will tell him that. We all know that we men hate to be objectifyed by women so I am sure it will help.....

Let me introduce you to the idea of context. You'll have noticed that people have an inner state and an outward presentation and the two do not always match. Some thoughts are not expressed and some preferences are overruled. How we present ourselves varies depending on the context we find ourselves in - the rules that govern different locales and situations vary and different standards of conduct are expected. For example, if you are at home watching a film with friends you may find yourself talking over dull scenes and riffing on jokes. Do the same thing in a cinema and you're likely to be asked to leave. The hilarious jokes you may wish to make must remain unsaid. Context matters.

I don't care what you think or feel or what you talk about in private with friends. Do whatever you want so long as it doesn't affect anyone else. In public, there are standards of behaviour that apply and you should understand that this is not private and you are not alone with your male friends. This is a public conversation on a public forum and when you publicly declare how much you like staring at attractive women's bodies you're making a declaration of how you will judge and value women who want to participate in the conversation.

So, spare us the bullshit of men are like this, women are like that - it's completely irrelevant - and try to act like a reasonable human being, please.
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#13
(19-03-2016, 01:19 PM)niflheim Wrote:
(18-03-2016, 11:37 PM)J.S. Wrote:
(18-03-2016, 10:14 PM)niflheim Wrote:
(18-03-2016, 06:07 PM)J.S. Wrote: Whenever I look at the net and look for some clips about RCs or nootropics one thing is noticable: 95% of the time it are men. Doing this. Very few times do I see the opposite seks. When  I do. it is a doctor who warns and fears and says we need to do this and that. We should not take risks...

Is that the clue again. Are females in general much more directed at preventing harm whereas we men are more risktakers? Or are we more interested in boosting our brains?

My complaint on society, well at least in Nl is that it is becoming way too feminine for my taste. I love females, I can't take my eyes of some of their parts when well developped. I respect them etc. But I completely dislike this "do not take risks" kind of message I'm constantly getting from them is boring. So is this also the reason why females are not so much into nootropics and RCs or is this whole observation wrong?

According to the statistics, the gender split is about 2:1 men to women for NPS. Women are less likely to disclose their gender online. There are different social pressures on men and women which probably feeds into how individuals perceive and evaluate risk, but it's unlikely to be so simple as men are risktakers and women are not, more that women who take risks are judged more harshly than men who do the same.

By the way, objectifying women in the same breath as you declare your respect for them is unlikely to help women feel comfortable in disclosing their gender. I would guess that most women who could have something to add to the conversation would prefer to be valued for the perspectives they bring to the table, their knowledge and how the articulate their experience,  rather than the fact they have secondary sexual characteristics that you may find aesthetcially pleasing.

First part agreed.

Second part. All that is sure is that you cannot be respectful while noting or focussing on so called "secondary sexual characteristics", since you seem to exclude the option that these two can go together well. People, men and women are multifaceted with many sides.
I can happily take women and what they say serious, converse or debate with them just like I do with men. In fact this subject is one I have talked about with women many times. I am straightforward. But physical attraction and focus does not exclude the other views at all.

But indeed I love these Roxy Music lines from Ladytron:
I find some,
way of connection.
Hiding my intention,
Then I move up close too you....
I'll use you
I'll confuse you
Then I'll lose you
Still you won't suspect me...

If the attraction is purely physical that is how I am. I spot female contours really from 100s metres away, my eyes lock in on boobs in miliseconds. It is not what I want them to do, they do. And I need no one to be like me to simply accept me as I am, but indeed all my  friends and male collegues are like that. And surely we talk about women without a single bit of respect, how we would do them. And we laugh hard, that we are all having this onedimensional view and we accept it as being males. Even a Jehovah witness has trouble with it. He is constantly smiling and tells us "but I am not supposed to be like that!" He is a walking conflict when it comes to women and the problem is: women really like him physically. May be they are just being disrepectful! I will tell him that. We all know that we men hate to be objectifyed by women so I am sure it will help.....

Let me introduce you to the idea of context. You'll have noticed that people have an inner state and an outward presentation and the two do not always match. Some thoughts are not expressed and some preferences are overruled. How we present ourselves varies depending on the context we find ourselves in - the rules that govern different locales and situations vary and different standards of conduct are expected. For example, if you are at home watching a film with friends you may find yourself talking over dull scenes and riffing on jokes. Do the same thing in a cinema and you're likely to be asked to leave. The hilarious jokes you may wish to make must remain unsaid. Context matters.

I don't care what you think or feel or what you talk about in private with friends. Do whatever you want so long as it doesn't affect anyone else. In public, there are standards of behaviour that apply and you should understand that this is not private and you are not alone with your male friends. This is a public conversation on a public forum and when you publicly declare how much you like staring at attractive women's bodies you're making a declaration of how you will judge and value women who want to participate in the conversation.

So, spare us the bullshit of men are like this, women are like that - it's completely irrelevant - and try to act like a reasonable human being, please.

Aha...it is a taboo. A dogma. Your thoughts on what is polite and what not is seen  as THE standard. It is simple: you think this, I think that.

""Reasonable".....yes...reasoning is a good basis for an argument, dogma, taboo and dictates are to oppress what people cannot stand and mostly are used when people have no argument. 

It is great that females are finally "allowed" to be who they are, but it is also nice that we men can be who we are without feeling somehow ashamed of our thoughts, urges or instincts. There is nothing to be ashamed of it is how I am, it is how my friends are. And it does not seem to apply to you and quite a few others over here. What is the problem?

Btw: you think discussing legal highs is what most people would consider ethical?? On a public forum? Right....
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#14
(19-03-2016, 02:27 PM)J.S. Wrote: Aha...it is a taboo. A dogma. Your thoughts on what is polite and what not is seen  as THE standard. It is simple: you think this, I think that.

""Reasonable".....yes...reasoning is a good basis for an argument, dogma, taboo and dictates are to oppress what people cannot stand and mostly are used when people have no argument. 

It is great that females are finally "allowed" to be who they are, but it is also nice that we men can be who we are without feeling somehow ashamed of our thoughts, urges or instincts. There is nothing to be ashamed of it is how I am, it is how my friends are. And it does not seem to apply to you and quite a few others over here. What is the problem?

Btw: you think discussing legal highs is what most people would consider ethical?? On a public forum? Right....

I'm not interested in arguing with you about this. You wanted to know why women don't seem to be well represented in forums like this. Part of the answer is because of people with your attitudes. If you want to ignore that and drone on about dogma and oppression instead of addressing it, that's up to you.
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#15
I actually read a report that showed Women beat Men by around 15% when it comes to total social media use, this is largely due to large sites such as Instagram, Facebook and Pinterest that seem to appeal to women more. Men generally seem to outnumber Women on forums though, Boards.ie did a poll a few years ago and men outnumbered women by 25%. As an occasional Reddit user I would have estimated a 3:1 ratio in favour of men, however, recently the site has claimed it has a 53:47 split in favour of men. Anyone who uses the site may very well find that hard to believe as it does seem very male dominated, although it's possible a lot of women do not want to disclose their gender. The report was carried out by Reddit, which should also be taken into account considering they are trying to reinvent the site as more "woman friendly" due to misogyny from a small but vocal portion of its user-base. 

Regarding drugs, I had a quick look through some studies which seem to all suggest men are simply more prone to use drugs than women. There was a lot of studies, and it did vary with country, but generally ratios from 5:1 to 3:1 in favour of men were most common. I'm not sure many women (or men) would see a difference between typical well known drugs and RCs or even Nootropics. Some people are very uneducated, a harmless Nootropic bought online would be seen similarly to cocaine by some people I know.

From my own experience, men just seem to generally experiment with drugs more than women. I was actually discussing this with a friend of mine after a crazy night of multiple drug use, and he thinks that men are just a bit more crazy than women. I don't know. I think cultural factors most certainly play a role, how many male drug users seem cool as shit in movies and TV shows? Many of which certainly glorify drug use among men, even really damaging and unhealthy use. I don't think there is that same influence when it comes to women, in fact, women drug users in movies or shows are rarely depicted very well at all. They're portrayed as skanks quite often. 

I'm no scientist so take what I say with a pinch of salt, but is it possible biological reasons also play a role. I read a study that claimed due to testosterone men can be prone to making more risky decisions. From my own experiences, men do seem to like to break the rules a lot more than women. Although, this too, could be attributed to culture, books, films etc... which all seem to depict men who break the rules as attractive and popular. Women who break the rules... not so much. Of course, everyone is different, male or female, and I do have two friends, both women, who are absolutely mental and do a lot of drugs.

I'm just stimmed and shooting out ideas. Personally, I think that in the context of a person using drugs as a means to escape, stigma around mental health, and in particularly male mental health (in my country anyway) pushes a lot of young men into an unhealthy pattern of drug abuse and escape. I think the whole "man the fuck up" culture that's very prevalent here also plays a role, it's seen as cooler to be a drug user than to have mental health issues. There still seems to be a massive shame regarding depression and I think a lot of men here turn to drugs or alcohol instead of getting help. This is backed up statistically too, three times as many women college students attend therapy than men. The suicide ratio over here is 4:1 in favour of men. It's a huge social problem, and services are seriously lacking.

As for your last comment. I don't think society is becoming too feminine. In fact, growing up I hated the macho culture in our school. There was a significant number of guys who were just aggressive fuckers constantly looking for fights, students who played sport got favourable treatment from teachers and a gay friend of mine would walk down the hall and people would shout "Homosexual" repeatedly at him and teachers would do nothing. I think that's nothing short of disgraceful. The sad thing is that's not even the tip of the iceberg. I love living in the city now, a lot less of that macho shit. 

So, that turned into a bit of stim rant there, but I think I made some valid points. In short, it is my opinion that women aren't as prone to drug use as men, coupled with the type of forums that such things are discussed on, which just don't seem to appeal to women as much, I think it's not really that surprising you haven't came across many women nootropic enthusiasts. I don't really see why you would be that bothered about whether people take risks or not, it has little to do with you. Also, your comment about women's "well developed parts" just seemed kind of odd and very juvenile. Everyone has various things that turn them on, seemed somewhat irrelevant for this discussion.
This is outrageous. This is contagious. So futile.
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#16
(21-03-2016, 02:19 PM)Tweek Wrote: I actually read a report that showed Women beat Men by around 15% when it comes to total social media use, this is largely due to large sites such as Instagram, Facebook and Pinterest that seem to appeal to women more. Men generally seem to outnumber Women on forums though, Boards.ie did a poll a few years ago and men outnumbered women by 25%. As an occasional Reddit user I would have estimated a 3:1 ratio in favour of men, however, recently the site has claimed it has a 53:47 split in favour of men. Anyone who uses the site may very well find that hard to believe as it does seem very male dominated, although it's possible a lot of women do not want to disclose their gender. The report was carried out by Reddit, which should also be taken into account considering they are trying to reinvent the site as more "woman friendly" due to misogyny from a small but vocal portion of its user-base. 

Regarding drugs, I had a quick look through some studies which seem to all suggest men are simply more prone to use drugs than women. There was a lot of studies, and it did vary with country, but generally ratios from 5:1 to 3:1 in favour of men were most common. I'm not sure many women (or men) would see a difference between typical well known drugs and RCs or even Nootropics. Some people are very uneducated, a harmless Nootropic bought online would be seen similarly to cocaine by some people I know.

From my own experience, men just seem to generally experiment with drugs more than women. I was actually discussing this with a friend of mine after a crazy night of multiple drug use, and he thinks that men are just a bit more crazy than women. I don't know. I think cultural factors most certainly play a role, how many male drug users seem cool as shit in movies and TV shows? Many of which certainly glorify drug use among men, even really damaging and unhealthy use. I don't think there is that same influence when it comes to women, in fact, women drug users in movies or shows are rarely depicted very well at all. They're portrayed as skanks quite often. 

I'm no scientist so take what I say with a pinch of salt, but is it possible biological reasons also play a role. I read a study that claimed due to testosterone men can be prone to making more risky decisions. From my own experiences, men do seem to like to break the rules a lot more than women. Although, this too, could be attributed to culture, books, films etc... which all seem to depict men who break the rules as attractive and popular. Women who break the rules... not so much. Of course, everyone is different, male or female, and I do have two friends, both women, who are absolutely mental and do a lot of drugs.

I'm just stimmed and shooting out ideas. Personally, I think that in the context of a person using drugs as a means to escape, stigma around mental health, and in particularly male mental health (in my country anyway) pushes a lot of young men into an unhealthy pattern of drug abuse and escape. I think the whole "man the fuck up" culture that's very prevalent here also plays a role, it's seen as cooler to be a drug user than to have mental health issues. There still seems to be a massive shame regarding depression and I think a lot of men here turn to drugs or alcohol instead of getting help. This is backed up statistically too, three times as many women college students attend therapy than men. The suicide ratio over here is 4:1 in favour of men. It's a huge social problem, and services are seriously lacking.

As for your last comment. I don't think society is becoming too feminine. In fact, growing up I hated the macho culture in our school. There was a significant number of guys who were just aggressive fuckers constantly looking for fights, students who played sport got favourable treatment from teachers and a gay friend of mine would walk down the hall and people would shout "Homosexual" repeatedly at him and teachers would do nothing. I think that's nothing short of disgraceful. The sad thing is that's not even the tip of the iceberg. I love living in the city now, a lot less of that macho shit. 

So, that turned into a bit of stim rant there, but I think I made some valid points. In short, it is my opinion that women aren't as prone to drug use as men, coupled with the type of forums that such things are discussed on, which just don't seem to appeal to women as much, I think it's not really that surprising you haven't came across many women nootropic enthusiasts. I don't really see why you would be that bothered about whether people take risks or not, it has little to do with you. Also, your comment about women's "well developed parts" just seemed kind of odd and very juvenile. Everyone has various things that turn them on, seemed somewhat irrelevant for this discussion.

5:1 or 3:1...! Wow, that is a difference. I find these differences for some reason (I seriously do not know why) intruiging.

Today one of female coworkers noted that men do not seem to give much about alternative medication. I started to think of it and I think that is very  much true. So homeopathy, Reiki etcetc....much more women than men. This puts the risk-avoidance of women down the drain one would say. But she said it had to with risks. She said the people she knows who use alternative medication firmly believe (in general) that standard meds are chemicals and chemicals are bad for your body...So it is safer to take homeopathy, natural remedies also in  her view...

Hmm....well...I am going to read into this, what makes men tick and what makes women tick. Both human, but sometimes so different it seems alien to me at least.

Macho culture is the opposite of feminine culture. I think both sexes simply need to be free off a society pushing them into some role for its (their) purpouse. So I hear women now say "where have all the good men gone!?" and "Men need to man-up" in which case men are remaining boys for a too long time.....because men are no longer as available for marriage or even longterm relationships. I read they keep on playing with their friends and clubbing. I suspect the availability of seks/porn on the net also has a role IF this is true. There is no longer as much  of a need to get a female for that part. Might be.

Anyway: equal rights to both...I am  all for it.
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#17
There's that whole red pill thing. Men are definitely trying to win back an advantage on what they perceive to be an unfair bias in society, which some days I'm not unsympathetic with. However I also think there are some elements of the menimist movement(read that phrase somewhere else) which is moronic, reactive, misogynistic (eg. they have principles like take what you want(women and money), don't apologise or explain, berate yourself for not being more mannish, etc). So I would think for a group of people striving for these kinds of things anything which gives them a perceived advantage(like noots, steroids etc) is going to sell like hot cakes.

It won't buy them any wisdom though. They'll have to take a long hard look at themselves for that and probably think introspection is for wussies. I suspect this is just another cycle we're going through as a society, and in a decade or so it'll be different again, hopefully getting a little bit better as we go. On the other hand wasn't Hitler trying to create the perfect race and look how that ended.

Anyway this is a bit off topic but I was reading about an online book written by some moderately well known internet celebrity about manning up, which has all sorts of directives like do a hundred press ups a day and other such man tasks. Then reading his forum I read he advocates all sorts of supplements and also recommends following a 'kratom lifestyle'. Apparently kratom isn't a drug it's a natural plant so he says. Anyway I'm not taking lifestyle advice off a delusional dickhead like that so I left it at that.
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#18
I'm a female, thought I'd share my experience. I started experimenting with nootropics around 6 years ago when I was teaching myself a maths A-Level. 

Tried piracetam, but it didn't really have much effect. Read after the trial that this is more common in women. Not sure if it's true, but there was a theory that our two hemispheres are more interconnected than with men and this is something piracetam helps with, so not much benefit there.

Used modafinil during my exam cramming. It certainly gave me the focus and staying power I needed, but I constantly felt sick on it. Ended up drinking ginger tea for the entire duration and didn't think it was worth it once I finished my exams (although I did do very well).

I still take cdp-choline and l-theanine. Something I noticed when I first used the choline was that Sominex (which was always a guaranteed knock out) didn't work. Researching it made me realise it was anticholinergic. After reading studies on the positive effects of choline on the brain, I was quite horrified that these are allowed to be consumed at all. Maybe something in the dementia link claims?

This post turned into a bit of a waffle actually. Maybe we just tend to complain more, the negatives outweighed the positives in most of my experiments. Still open to testing more in the future, will pick something before the ridiculous blanket ban kicks in.

Something did change between 2001 and 2010. My office environment was completely male dominated. I had to work very hard for the same respect instantly handed to the men. The only other women were receptionists and secretaries.

Left the country, worked from home, came back...

Started working in another male dominated environment. Too many a long time for the guys to relax around me, they were so scared of saying the wrong thing. It was quite a shocking change. Took some work to get them to realise they don't have to give me special treatment.

I don't know what happened while I was gone, but it has definitely shifted too far the other way. We desperately need a middle ground.
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#19
Risk aversion and not wanting to offend is certainly the corporate way atm, although personally I associate it more with tired old male directors who don't want any major changes before pension time than females. 

But yes, the PC thing, fear of mitigation dressed up as social concern, is a somewhat sickly hypocrisy. There's nothing worse than having to walk on eggshells in order to avoid upsetting folk who are actively looking for something to be offended about, usually on someone else's behalf.

The middle ground requires thought and empathy. Which is a little more challenging than simply being scared of being sued.
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#20
Well I have a week off from my work. And I am so very tired. I sleep without anything, no benzo, no nothing. It is the work and the culture where I work now. And PC, telling  others how to behave, almost how to think is overboard there.

On the plus side, some females have told me they find me a fresh wind. They love my contrarian views and humour which is so incorrect they feel ashamed that they had to laigh so hard. It are mostly very racist and female debunking jokes. Which they do not expect from a person who is close to Anarchosyndicalism. THey KNOW I mean the complete opposite and that I am not like that at all. They see in arguments how I am seriously worried about Palestinians and how I feel ashamed for us getting so upset over 9-11 while we didn't gave A DAMN about what happened 6 yrs earlier in Rwanda. 1 million dead, but black so who cared. That is how we all reacted. When people are killed and slaughtered by the 1000s in the Middle East, civilians, we don't care much. But when it happens in  Paris or Brussels, it is so awful. It becomes politically  incorrect to point people at the response on 34 Iraqi Civilians died per day for 6 years in a row by our western troops. No: you can't say that.The 1500 women and children that died in 2014 by Israel in  Gaza in August didn't even  register. it isn't evben in  the news.

So when a Dutch plane is crashed by Russians or Ukranians and the week long daily coverage on  every bodybag brought in and the 3 minutes silence at my work, I did not join in. And the 1 minute silence for Paris: I didn't join in. I went on  with  what I do because I refuse to accept such biased behaviour as somehow the correct thing to do.

So when I say that someone is a nice guy indeed, but remains black they know where it comes from and why. It is a joke because people do not expect such a remark from someone with such politcal stances like me. Same on females and their bodies. While I love them and can't take my eyes of them at times, I respect them and am far more emancipated than by far the most people. But I refuse to give up my personal way of expressing myself, of saying how I feel based on  a nations or companies supposed correctness. And I tell these females openly how I and many men also have our nature of admiring the female exterior which at times is like a magnet. A see many actually like that and seem to understand many of us work that way. It is harmless too and not disrespectful at all.
 
On the plus side, some women have told me that my view on things  (also risktaking) is changing them. What is really peculiar is that three, independant of eachother have said in arguments that they noticed a thought that occurs....here it comes "What would J.S. say?". Because they no longer agree with someones stance based on my thoughts but they used to think that way. When I heard one woman telling me this,  I was surprised and ssaid it to an inlaw. And she said she in fact had the exact same thoughts every now and then. And then another girl at my work (former coworker) agreed that she on many occasions thinks about what I said.

So apparantly there are more people who agree with taking a stand against many of these mainstream thoughts that dictate how others should feel or express themselves.
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