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Pregabalin
#21
A note of caution. The WD's from pregabalin (and gabapentin a similar but weaker drug) can be excruciatingly bad, and also dangerous.

A guy I know used these in silly amounts for an extended period...great...til his supplies ran out, at which point he ended up in hospital for a spell, followed by months of abject misery.

Go careful folks...
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#22
Have a mate prescribed almost a gram of pregabalin a day, had to have a hospital supervised taper but still had seizures and hallucinations. I was on it for just a month and spent a week feeling sick and barely being able to sleep after stopping, imagine if I'd been on it longer. It cannot be stressed enough you have to be careful with pregabalin. I think dependence actually builds up quicker than benzos on this stuff.

If you use it PRN it works great but it's stupid that GPs hate prescribing anything on a PRN basis. They will keep handing out pregabalin like Smarties then when everyone is having problems getting off it they'll classify it as evil and stop prescribing it completely like they did with benzos. Have a happy medium you silly twats.
Who the fuck is Psychoactive Substances Bill and why is he taking all my drugs?
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#23
(12-07-2015, 04:36 PM)WeAreScientists Wrote: ... I think dependence actually builds up quicker than benzos on this stuff. ... 

Absolutely! 

I use gabapentin for a maximum of three consecutive days at a time usually at a dose of 900mg/day give or take, and this is enough to instigate very mild withdrawals on cessation. 
(I believe 300mg gabapentin roughly equates to 75mg of pregabalin, but don't quote me on that!)

Ive taken the same dose for four consecutive days, and the wd's have been marginally worse than after a three day spell of usage! That certainly backs up your thoughts regarding tolerance/dependence WAS!

It is a very effective and useful gaba drug for a number of afflictions, but as you state, GP's are currently very happy to dish these out like sweets seemingly without being aware of the full long term ramifications to the patient.

I think that as professional awareness increases with these gaba drugs, we will see a shift towards them being treated similarly to the way benzo's are. In the meantime I just hope not too many people are left suffering badly because of the actions of poorly educated/ill-advised doctor's....

ETA: Don't you find that doctor's hate it when you have a bit of knowledge about things, and you try to impart it?!
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#24
Hmm, OK, at risk of contradicting other things I may have wrote (https://www.ukchemicalresearch.org/Threa...#pid143240) but being more detailed and honest. and brutal.....

I needed it and other pharmas to get through a bigger than normal for me breakdown (After 40 years I've had a few :| ). I've taken daily pregabalin 700mg for > 1 year, functional use but it has obvious benefits even then, occasionally saving for recreational use but no longer since tolerance means that 4g isn't enough.

As mentioned above, I went in eyes open after chatting to current and stopped users, so I fully expect withdrawal, both physical and mental to be a nightmare. I plan to head somewhere just me and a bike which helped normal benzo withdrawals. I expect taper to be longer than I've needed for previous benzos, but I'm in no rush, it takes as long as it takes.

BTW as an indicator of the relaxant dependence I can tell if i've forgotten a morning dose, within 2-3 hours my muscles have seized up, limbs and upper CNS related, and pain is starting.

Sigh. If you need it for pain and/or anxiolitic purposes, it's a wonder drug, but as said avoid long term use unless you are willing to go very long and have consultant support. t's not a benzo, but it's also worth trying once at low dose if you're not sure what benzo recreational use is, but with this gaba one be very careful of siezures and so have a sitter around.

As I'm pretty sure I've said somewhere it's a vasodillator so takes longer but can be used instead of, say clonidine. Don't combine with Alpha blockers (clonidine) be careful even low dose beta blockers (e.g. propanolol) and esp. benzos (xanax gets a lot of mention, I think it's any relaxany/depressant e.g. valium too) or opes or alcohol which is going to have additive depressant effects (or potantate even, see below).

Oh, and from somewhere which may be accurate:
  • Pregabalin is reported as having alcohol-like effects mixed with euphoria, thus producing a recreational high. Emerging evidence shows pregabalin to have abuse potential particularly in the substance misuse population.In recent years, it has become apparent that pregabalin is also used illicitly. 
  • Both pregabalin and gabapentin are highly sought after because of their ability to enhance the effects [Mink - potentate?] of opiates and alcohol, and also because of their own inherent abuse potential.


Have you made the effort to listen to your subconscious today? 'Your sake' breakz are as amazing as line times or pin mins.


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#25
Am sure this will become scheduled without a valid prescription.
Be good; but if you can't be good, be careful ]:->
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#26
How does this compare (ie. (side)effect-wise, euphoria, duration, potency etc.) to plain old gabapentin? AFAIK pregabalin is a pro-drug for gabapentin, no?

I've tried gabapentin in ~1.5g doses for recreation but find it's waaay too wobbly and uncoordinated - "derpy" if you will - compared to the likes of benzos. It was fun for just flopping around and watching TV all lazy like, but I found I had to take 20mg methylphenidate just to counteract the sloppiness and make myself even remotely functional (in this case even to walk the dog). The MPH basically overwhelmed the residual feelings of the gabapentin by the time I took it.

I imagine it would make a useful complementary drug - in smaller doses - to take with certain stims or in other situations (comedowns, sleep etc.) where one would normally reach for the benzos; in such scenarios how do either of these drugs favour compared to taking benzos instead? I mean from what I've read the WD's are on-par with benzos or alcohol, so what makes Pregabalin/Gabapentin preferable over (RC) benzos for anxiolysis/ sedation etc.? I know it's also used for pain management. Though if the WD's are as bad as folk say, I can't imagine why opioids wouldn't simply be the preferable (obviously this is a theoretical question as accessibility factors come into play with opioids, both in RC and prescription terms)? In either case benzos or opioids seem far more functional/less inebriating for their desired purposes.
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#27
Thanks for sharing that Mink :)

I hope the taper goes well for you, and it should be relatively painless if you have the time and enough meds to take it nice and slow..?

Best of luck my friend, and please keep us updated as to how it goes (if you can and want to that is!!) 


Eyebrows - I can't really comment on the experiential differences between the two, as I too only have any real experience with the gabapentin. However from what I've heard, pregabalin is somewhat stronger, and also seems to be preferred by those using it recreationally. 

It's been described to me as very similar, but different, and a better feeling. And yes I believe it is a pro-drug for gaba.

Sorry I can't be anymore helpful than that. I only have hearsay to go off. And as you probably know, experiences are subjective and vary from person to person (I know people who prefer gaba over pregab!) 


I think the number of people using these drugs recreationally is really quite high, as script-happy quacks have made them readily available on the streets. This is guaranteed to change soon as awareness is increasing... 

N.B. Part of me wonders if these drugs are initially made easily available on purpose in order to create addicts for the financial benefit of the pharma manufacturers...?! But I am something of a conspiracy theorist btw! Lol
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#28
(13-07-2015, 02:49 PM)Eyebrows Wrote: How does this compare (ie. (side)effect-wise, euphoria, duration, potency etc.) to plain old gabapentin? AFAIK pregabalin is a pro-drug for gabapentin, no?

So in theory:
  • Similar actions, gabapentin(GP) being converted to pregabalin(PG) via one of a number of routes possible.
  • PG more rapid effect (peak plasma) ~1hour+ (personally I feel 2) compared to 3-4 for GP
  • PG ~3x more bioavailable hence potent, 375mg PG similar to 1200mg GP
  • GP effect/dose drops below linear, PG remains linear, hence higher doses of GP become self limiting.
  • linear response of PG however allows increased effect (and makes lethal doses of PG much more possible).
  • similar effects and side effects beyond dose, but PG seems to be more  effective against sneralgis pain, no systematic study I could find though on specifics of the analgesic properties of the two.

Eyebrows Wrote:I've tried gabapentin in ~1.5g doses for recreation but find it's waaay too wobbly and uncoordinated - "derpy" if you will - compared to the likes of benzos. It was fun for just flopping around and watching TV all lazy like, but I found I had to take 20mg methylphenidate just to counteract the sloppiness and make myself even remotely functional (in this case even to walk the dog). The MPH basically overwhelmed the residual feelings of the gabapentin by the time I took it.

"wobbly and uncoordinated, floppy" - at higher doses PG does exactly the same. Don't plan on walking the dog on it alone.

The dose varies depending upon your normal dose, if you're on 750mg/day 2x then 4x then 8x then 16x etc...... 5g seems to be a dose you don't wanna reach. Also the linear response continues remember. And just like tapering up/down over weeks, be aware the effect is similar, don't OD by using a dose fine a month ago. 

Eyebrows Wrote:I imagine it would make a useful complementary drug - in smaller doses - to take with certain stims or in other situations (comedowns, sleep etc.) where one would normally reach for the benzos; in such scenarios how do either of these drugs favour compared to taking benzos instead? I mean from what I've read the WD's are on-par with benzos or alcohol, so what makes Pregabalin/Gabapentin preferable over (RC) benzos for anxiolysis/ sedation etc.? I know it's also used for pain management. Though if the WD's are as bad as folk say, I can't imagine why opioids wouldn't simply be the preferable (obviously this is a theoretical question as accessibility factors come into play with opioids, both in RC and prescription terms)? In either case benzos or opioids seem far more functional/less inebriating for their desired purposes.
anxiolitic better than any benzo I've had, limited sedation, hence use for GAD. Pain mentioned above i understand is relief of neueropathic pain specifically, so not replacing opes in general.


Have you made the effort to listen to your subconscious today? 'Your sake' breakz are as amazing as line times or pin mins.


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#29
I am genuinely surprised this has gone so long without being controlled. It will be a class C soon bet ya.

As for getting off them good luck mate, go very slowly. I recommend benzos if they cause rebound anxiety and insomnia as they did for me, just obviously be careful to use them sparingly so you don't replace one problem with another. Weed would help a lot as well, particularly indica for sleep.
Who the fuck is Psychoactive Substances Bill and why is he taking all my drugs?
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#30
well been using pregablin heavy over couple week only got a few left how should i taper
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