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NMDA antagonists for tolerance and withdrawals
#1
I made a thread about this years ago on bluelight:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&...8448,d.bGs

Imo is the addition of memantine one of the most important things you can do when using drugs, mostly for the prevention of tolerance, also for dramatically reducing withdrawals, and for those having the withdrawal of benzos then DXM or memantine would be the best help to start with.

Im fucking tired atm, ill post more later.
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#2
(09-04-2016, 02:33 AM)Alias22 Wrote: I made a thread about this years ago on bluelight:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&...8448,d.bGs

Imo is the addition of memantine one of the most important things you can do when using drugs, mostly for the prevention of tolerance, also for dramatically reducing withdrawals, and for those having the withdrawal of benzos then DXM or memantine would be the best help to start with.

Im fucking tired atm, ill post more later.

Just read your Bluelight post and it is extremely interesting and of serious importance to anyone taking drugs, either recreationally or prescribed.

I see memantine is easily available at online pharmacies such as 4NRX and intend to give it a try.

If you have any personal experience of using memantine, I would be very grateful if you'd share it, I think many users of this forum would also be interested in further details.

As you've indicated, memantine could potentially be of enormous benefit to users of this forum and beyond.
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#3
I am supplementing with pregnenolone atm, which is pro glutaminergic, also methylene blue which i take kinda is as it potentiates LTP, one of the main mechanism, on top of that i allways noriced a faster tolerance to 4 fluoro ethyls, the current stuff i have is complete crap tough and seemed extremely toxic, that said im gonna try to potentiate the effects the beneficial effects with a acute dose of diphinidine, i got it as a sample, its considered crap but most but im gonna try a 50mg oral dose to see wheter it makes some beneficial effects shine tough, i pretty much the wakefullness aspect of it and i never experimented much with the dissociates for tolerance reversal or potentiation in contrast to dxm and memantine, i dont expect much as i hate this 4eph but i dont expect it would potentiate the toxic effects and diphinidine is also considered crap but its still a potent nmda antagonist.

Either way experimenting is just something i allways do.

Also forgive for me for not posting much, i have way too much data i need to organise and sigh things going on in my life atm.
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#4
(29-04-2016, 06:51 PM)Alias22 Wrote: I am supplementing with pregnenolone atm, which is pro glutaminergic, also methylene blue which i take kinda is as it potentiates LTP, one of the main mechanism, on top of that i allways noriced a faster tolerance to 4 fluoro ethyls, the current stuff i have is complete crap tough and seemed extremely toxic, that said im gonna try to potentiate the effects the beneficial effects with a acute dose of diphinidine, i got it as a sample, its considered crap but most but im gonna try a 50mg oral dose to see wheter it makes some beneficial effects shine tough, i pretty much the wakefullness aspect of it and i never experimented much with the dissociates for tolerance reversal or potentiation in contrast to dxm and memantine, i dont expect much as i hate this 4eph but i dont expect it would potentiate the toxic effects and diphinidine is also considered crap but its still a potent nmda antagonist.

Either way experimenting is just something i allways do.

Also forgive for me for not posting much, i have way too much data i need to organise and sigh things going on in my life atm.

Methylene Blue has neurotoxic effects
http://anesthesiology.pubs.asahq.org/art...id=1932089
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#5
Great subject and data, surprised about the MB though, it really is known toxic and responsible for more than a few horror stories on reddit. Stories of people 'realising' they've been watching TV for hours without grasping any plot. Finding themselves hungry but not having the wherewithall to prepare food. No thanks. Corresponding positive reports seem sparse.
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#6
any updates on peeps taking memantine? i bought 100x5mg from united pharmacys - took 2.5mg on mon (nothing to report), on tue took 2.5mg again, 30 mins later 12mg 4F-MPH and a few minutes later had this weird hot feeling in my head, lasted 20mins or so, wasnt nice at all, so i stopped memantine till today, i took 1.25mg at lunchtime after taking MNA/3F this morning, nothing to report about the memantine today.

I am really interested in how others get on with memantine on this forum?
also i havent found a source of DXM from the UK that is just DXMand no other crap
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#7
(13-05-2016, 01:30 PM)dudey Wrote: any updates on peeps taking memantine? i bought 100x5mg from united pharmacys - took 2.5mg on mon (nothing to report), on tue took 2.5mg again, 30 mins later 12mg 4F-MPH and a few minutes later had this weird hot feeling in my head, lasted 20mins or so, wasnt nice at all, so i stopped memantine till today, i took 1.25mg at lunchtime after taking MNA/3F this morning, nothing to report about the memantine today.

I am really interested in how others get on with memantine on this forum?
also i havent found a source of DXM from the UK that is just DXMand no other crap

Hi mate, I'd be careful using memantine and dopaminergic drugs concurrently as there is some dopaminergic action from Memantine as well http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7813574


Could cause some rather unpleasant side effects although I believe the dopaminergic activity is more limited in time span than the NMDA antagonism
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#8
(14-05-2016, 03:17 PM)YepYupYay Wrote:
(13-05-2016, 01:30 PM)dudey Wrote: any updates on peeps taking memantine? i bought 100x5mg from united pharmacys - took 2.5mg on mon (nothing to report), on tue took 2.5mg again, 30 mins later 12mg 4F-MPH and a few minutes later had this weird hot feeling in my head, lasted 20mins or so, wasnt nice at all, so i stopped memantine till today, i took 1.25mg at lunchtime after taking MNA/3F this morning, nothing to report about the memantine today.

I am really interested in how others get on with memantine on this forum?
also i havent found a source of DXM from the UK that is just DXMand no other crap

Hi mate, I'd be careful using memantine and dopaminergic drugs concurrently as there is some dopaminergic action from Memantine as well http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7813574


Could cause some rather unpleasant side effects although I believe the dopaminergic activity is more limited in time span than the NMDA antagonism

well that would explain the warm feeling in my head, so all the peeps on bluelight taking memantine "with" stims are really playing with fire? from what i read on the pubmed link above it would be ok to take stim first thing in the morning and memantine last thing at night? or no stims on the same day as memantine? i am new to these drugs, i appreciate any constructive feedback.
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#9
(14-05-2016, 09:10 PM)dudey Wrote:
(14-05-2016, 03:17 PM)YepYupYay Wrote:
(13-05-2016, 01:30 PM)dudey Wrote: any updates on peeps taking memantine? i bought 100x5mg from united pharmacys - took 2.5mg on mon (nothing to report), on tue took 2.5mg again, 30 mins later 12mg 4F-MPH and a few minutes later had this weird hot feeling in my head, lasted 20mins or so, wasnt nice at all, so i stopped memantine till today, i took 1.25mg at lunchtime after taking MNA/3F this morning, nothing to report about the memantine today.

I am really interested in how others get on with memantine on this forum?
also i havent found a source of DXM from the UK that is just DXMand no other crap

Hi mate, I'd be careful using memantine and dopaminergic drugs concurrently as there is some dopaminergic action from Memantine as well http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7813574


Could cause some rather unpleasant side effects although I believe the dopaminergic activity is more limited in time span than the NMDA antagonism

well that would explain the warm feeling in my head, so all the peeps on bluelight taking memantine "with" stims are really playing with fire? from what i read on the pubmed link above it would be ok to take stim first thing in the morning and memantine last thing at night? or no stims on the same day as memantine? i am new to these drugs, i appreciate any constructive feedback.

Well you're going to struggle with regards to taking stims and memantine at truly seperate times considering that memantine has a half life of 80 hours - i.e. half of the dosage taken is still present within your blood stream after 80 hours.

I cannot make any suggestions from a HR point of view, and I am not qualified to offer medical advice and anything I say should not be taken as such, but personally I would be willing to take stimulants with memantine myself but just keep the dosages of stimulants much lower and work upwards, very slowly. If my typical dose of 4F-MPH was 12mg, I would start with 6 and see what effect that had. I would definitely monitor my BPM and blood pressure before and after taking memantine however to see just what level of synergism exists between them.

Firstly there are acute stimulating effects from memantine from a number of mechanisms including D2 receptor agonism, MAO enzyme inhibition (enzymes that break down dopamine and serotonin) - but it must be noted that these MAOI effects are mild in comparison to say something like Deprenyl. Also memantine inhibits upstream neurons which have an inhibitory effect on dopamine release, in the same way that lamictal (a calcium channel blocker) does so this along with NMDA antagonism will reduce your tolerance to dopaminergic drugs.

In short: memantine not only reduces tolerance to stimulants but is actively synergistic with stimulants meaning a lower dose should be taken.

Ideally, you would work your way up to 10mg-15mg per day of memantine for a few weeks to a month before taking stimulants again in order to reap the full benefits.

I am about to embark on my own experiment to see if Memantine can reduce tolerance to Phenibut, as that along with Etizolam, are the only drugs I have ever found myself addicted to but unlike Etizolam, my Phenibut tolerance has barely gone down since I had a 2-3 week heavy addiction in October where I ended up taking 15g per day until I tapered down. Since then, it takes me 7 grams to feel the same effects as 2g did when I started and I'm obviously concerned about the potential hepatoxicity of using such a huge amount (I take it once a month now at most) so if the use of DXM, Memantine, and potentially other NMDA antagonist RCs such as Ephenidine (which I have yet to try) does not sucessfully lower my tolerance I'll have to bin what I have left of it, sadly.

Memantine's tolerance reducing effects on Gabaergic drugs is far less conclusive than that of Dopaminergic drugs, so this is a bit of an experiment to say the least but I have seen some positive anecdotes about the reduction in tolerance to Benzodiazepines from using DXM and Memantine so there may be hope.


Another HR method one could employ, would be to measure one's resting and sober blood pressure and then measure  blood pressure after taking 4F-MPH at a certain time of day to see what a typical spike in blood pressure would be from the increased level of dopamine and noradrenaline, and then test the same (small) dose of 4F-MPH after a couple of days of Memantine to see if it is significantly higher. A blood pressure arm band can be bought from Tesco's or any pharmacy for as little as £15-30.

A fantastic thread, which may be the one you are referring to is found here: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/5018...al-reports

Again, do NOT take this as medical advice or a suggestion to follow, this is just really me hypothesizing out loud for my own benefit :) I hope this is somewhat informative.

Final note: taking DXM concurrently with a stimulant would be positively dangerous and have the potential to cause hypertension and/or serotonin syndrome due to its much wider variety of effects over those of Memantine.

I'll have to read through this post again tomorrow as I'm tired as fuck so I feel like I've rambled on a bit here lol.

Cheers

Also just to add to my reply, a quick search of google 'memantine + x stimulant' brings up many anecdotes such as the following:

hey guys,


this is the last day of finals

as a preface, i started taking memantine in late december- started off with 10mg every day that i remembered then progressed to 20mg and 30mg and staggered periodically between them. they always seemed to blunt the effects of addy but not today they didnt.

i have been awake for ~ 34 hours now cus ive been cramming

anyways, at about 2 am today (~8 hours ago) i was feeling tired and such, so i kinda zombie semi studied til~ 7 am. then i took 4 memantine 10mg's and 45 mg addy IR --- at about 9 30 am (right in the middle of my final i just had) i began to notice that i was feeling weird, not the "ideal" focus and feeling addy feeling, more like too much racing thoughts and ultra cotton mouth i finished my final as best i could and then left

as i was walking i noticed my heartbeat was way too fucking fast and that i felt like i was floating then i realized i am way too fucking high

i just got back to my dorm and i gotta another final in 2 hours, is there anything i can do that would take me down a notch? soda? help![Image: argh.gif]
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#10
ive stopped taking stims since friday, also seem to be going through some opiate withdrawal since saturday, been reducing tianeptine since sat (down to 55mg sulphate type), not sure if wds are from tianeptine or kratom or combo but i only did kratom twice weekly, taking tramadol 50mg to counter wds, seems to lessen the sniffs and achy legs. Weird that the wds started same time i started memantine at 1.25mg, on 2.5 going to 5mg tomorrow - taking it real slow as i read people have a lot of sides with it.
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