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How to make c-liquids
#11
(24-03-2017, 11:30 PM)niamh Wrote: I doubt that MDMB-CHMCZCA is potent enough or soluble enough to be practical for use in a c-liquid.

endeed very low potency, sniffed almost a hole gram and no efect... xD
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#12
(14-10-2016, 03:28 PM)niamh Wrote: Someone asked me how to make c-liquids and I ended up writing rather a lot, so I thought I'd post this here. None of this is should be taken as a suggestion or to mean that I think using C-liquids or making them this way is safe. This is how I make them and the kind of things I consider that I think help reduce my risk. Make your own choices and decisions.

A couple of safety notes:

1. The liquids used as the base for e-liquids and c-liquids are the same. You shouldn't use anything for a c-liquid that isn't used widely for e-liquids. Some might be harmful. In particular, oils can cause a kind of pneumonia if vaped. If you buy the e-liquid base (also called diluents) from a specialist e-liquid retailer, you'll get the right stuff. Lots of places sell these, but as an example see http://decadentvapours.com/uk/diy-e-liquid/diluent/ - for the purposes of making c-liquids the one mostly used is propylene glycol (P.G.); vegetable glycerine (V.G.) does not tend to be very good at dissolving them. PEG 400 is used more commercially than by DIYers, but might dissolve some things better.

2. Measuring things accurately is very important. You will need a suitable scale that's accurate to within a couple of milligrams. Some of the C-liquids I've made have as little as 40mg of the chemical in them and that's a very small amount. The most popular cheap scales seem to be the Gem20 model - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Smart-Weigh-GEM...B00ESHDGOI but there are alternatives. If you don't have scales and don't know how to use them, then you should do some research and learn how to use this kind of scale to get accurate measurements. It's a good idea to follow the principle of "measure twice, cut once" - i.e. repeat important measurements and verify that you're getting the same result and that the result matches what you wanted before you actually use the thing you're measuring. You should always consider the fact that you may have made a mistake and routinely check for that possibility.

3. Not all cannabinoids are suitable for use in c-liquids. You should research anything you're thinking of using and unless you have a very good idea of what you're doing, don't be the first person to try it. (I've been that first person and didn't always have as good an idea of what I was doing as I thought and was lucky that there weren't any serious consequences - so trust me on this).

4. Don't wing it. Know what you're going to do in detail and have everything you need before you start. It's much easier to go wrong if you're improvising instead of following a plan you've thoroughly considered.

5. C-liquids present a danger of absorbing through the skin in potentially dangerous doses. Always store c-liquids safely, never walk around with a bottle in your pocket and when making them wear gloves and clean up any spills promptly. Spills on your skin should be washed off with soap and water as soon as you can do so safely.

So, for making c-liquids you will require these ingredients:

* a suitable cannabinoid in pure form
* an e-liquid base/diluent like propylene glycol
* optionally, a flavouring intended for use in e-liquids (if you make a concentrated c-liquid then you can mix it with flavoured e-liquid when using rather than flavouring the c-liquid itself)

And this equipment:

* a milligram scale
* a needle bottle of the kind DIY e-liquid makers use (these are squeezy and have a blunt needle to make it easy to get the liquid into the tank of an e-cigarette.) These come in 10ml or 15ml sizes.
* a small scoop, laboratory spatula or improvised equivalent for transferring the cannabinoid between the container it's in and the scale.
* a pipette or suitable syringe with marked graduations
* a bowl or cup
* hot water (as from the hot water tap)
* gloves (disposable nitrile or latex should be fine - don't use thick gloves intended for cleaning purposes which are likely to make you clumsy - don't reuse)
* paper towel (for cleaning up spills
* label and pen (for clearly labelling you c-liquid)

For using the resulting c-liquid you need:

* an e-cigarette or mod with a fillable tank.

When measuring the diluent you can either measure it using the pipette/syringe or you can weigh it after working out the weight of the volume required.

Method:

0. First arrange your working area so it's clear and organised with everything you need to hand. Think through safety aspects - if you have to leave the area quickly (to wash a spill off your skin for example) is anyone or anything, particularly children or pets, going to be put in any danger. If you spill c-liquid on yourself, do you have access to facilities where you can wash it off promptly? etc.

1. Decide how much of the cannabinoid you will be using, bearing in mind that dissolving larger amounts will be difficult. The figure that you'll see people discussing is mg/ml. i.e. how many milligrams of the cannabinoid are in each millilitre of the final product. Bear in mind that in propylene glycol, the practical limit for solubility for cannabinoids tends to range from around 4mg/ml to 20mg/ml. If you decide on 4mg/ml and wanted to make 10ml of c-liquid, you would need 40mg of the cannabinoid.

2. Weigh out the chosen amount of the cannabinoid on your milligram scale. You can either put the cannabinoid on a small bit of paper and then carefully transfer it to the bottle or if you have a steady hand it's possible to place the bottle on the scale, tare it (scales should have a tare button which sets the scale to zero relative to the weight that's currently being measured) and then measure the cannabinoid directly in the bottle.

3. Measure out the chosen amount of diluent using the pipette or syringe (or by weighing) and put this into the bottle with your cannabinoid. If flavouring is being used, you should know how much flavouring you're using (following the manufacturer's guidelines) and deduct the volume or weight from the amount of diluent being used so that they total the amount of c-liquid you want to make. Add the flavouring if used.

You now have a needle bottle with mostly undissolved cannabinoid under 10ml (or your chosen amount) of liquid.

4. Get the cannabinoid to dissolve. This will take longer than you think. Shaking the bottle will help, as will gentle heat. Alternating between shaking the bottle and placing the (closed and sealed) bottle in a bowl/cup of hot water from the tap. On occasion for some of the more reluctantly dissolving 'noids, I've resorted to physically breaking up clumps in the liquid using a toothpick). You may need to leave it overnight in a warm place.

[One trick to speed this up: Find a vibrator - a super powerful mains-powered magic wand vibrator is ideal (if you have any friends or significant others who seem dazed but happy, why not enquire? or just give yourself the gift of pleasure)  Safely secure the bottle to the vibrator, turn it up to its highest setting and let it run for 10 minutes. Repeat as necessary. Don't worry about what the neighbours might be thinking - they'll just assume you're having some kind of solo-orgy instead of making drugs. Apparently ultrasonic cleaners can work, too. For dissolving drugs, not getting you off.]

5. Eventually, all the cannabinoid should dissolve (some very tiny particles may remain, which are likely to be insoluble impurities. In general these should not cause problems. Anything more likely means that the cannabinoid isn't dissolved. You may either need to give it more time or have tried to use more cannabinoid than your diluent will dissolve - carefully pour off the liquid and save it, then add a measured amount of diluent to the bottle with the remaining undissolved cannabinoid  - in order to have a known strength and not two bottles with very different concentrations you will need to combine these again once the cannabinoid is fully dissolved.

You now have a c-liquid at a known concentration which can be vaped in a normal e-cigrarette device or mod. Don't use tanks you've used for c-liquids for e-liquid. Always treat with caution and start out very slowly with small puffs and wait for a few minutes to see if any effect develops. Always label the bottle clearly so you - and anyone else who might find it and not know that it's full of powerful psychotropic drugs that can cause terrifying panic or possibly fatalities in overdose - don't mix it up.

And that's how I make c-liquids for my own use.
Hello niamh,
I'm new to the community but not new in the business. I was reading your post on "how to make C-liquid" and reaching out to you as you seems the most knowledgeable person here.
IF you don't mind me asking about few things as I'm kinda lost on making the c-liquid. I used to get very good c-liquid from one vendor with 5f-ADB but recently the vendor ran out of the product and can't make it anymore. We want it to try and experiment the same c-liquid but don't know how much product do we need e.g vg or pg.
We have all the other supplies like pipette, bottles and safety procedures are in place.
Right now, we have 100mg of 5F-ADB. In order to make 5ml c-liquid bottles, how much vg/pg solution do we need and how many 5ml bottles can we make from 100mg?

I hope you will help us out. Your Cooperation would be highly appreciated.

thank you
Russell
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#13
Nobody can tell you the strength of your previous c-liquid, so either you happen to know or you'll have to DYOR for that bit. In terms of the base, e-liquids use almost any proportion of PG to VG but, as niamh mentioned, not much dissolves in VG. A mainstream e-liquid might typically use a 70:30 blend and I've made c-liquids on a similar base. More VG (60:40) means bigger clouds but a bit less throat hit; VG is more viscous so not all tanks play well with 60:40 and greater amounts of VG. Less VG (80:20) is also a pretty common formulation for commercial e-liquid.

According to the WHO's 'Critical Review Report' on 5F-ADB (http://www.who.int/medicines/access/cont...5F-ADB.pdf), 5F-ADB is active from doses of around 50μg, so your 100mg should be around 2,000 'hits' / tokes.

Your target strength in mg/ml thus depends on the vaping kit you plan to use; an old e-pen from a couple of years ago gave around 80 tokes per ml, whilst modern sub-ohm 'shisha' type apparatus produces huge clouds at the expense of yielding as few as 20 tokes/ml. (If you can't account for this potential four-fold variance, you can't make a c-liquid that's effective in a regular pen without being bloody dangerous in a sub-ohm mod. Plan accordingly.)

Thus, as a ballpark, 400μg/ml would be what I might target for a 'shisha' type pen, up to a working strength of perhaps 1.6mg/ml for older pens. If you don't have data for the c-liquid that you're trying to replicate, you might do better to dissolve your 5F-ADB at a high strength in a small bottle (take due precautions to ensure this NEVER makes it into a tank undiluted) and use that to adjust an otherwise agreeable e-liquid base to suit. Beware, if you do this, that you still need to ensure that the liquids are mixed well.

For instance, I might make up a 10mg/ml concentrate, then use 0.5ml of it to 9.5ml of juice to produce 0.5mg/ml initially, and sample (with due care). I'd do this using either a 25ml stoppered measuring cylinder or a 30ml bottle, so that when/if the above is undercooked, we can make it up to 20ml at a higher concentration with minimal wastage. You can always shove it back into 5ml bottles once you know what you're making.
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