31-07-2016, 04:56 PM
(This post was last modified: 31-07-2016, 07:44 PM by Mr Green Plant.)
Hi just want to create an open discussion about how people are coping with things post ban.
I have given up Kratom after a 2 year battle to do so, even though i enjoyed it and had many chances to perform a successful taper i didn't. I had a stint in rehab at the beginning of this year i made posts about it.
I was getting better until i relapsed on kratom and various rc benzos, the benzos weren't a problem for me this time. I thought I could dabble a bit in Kratom and could for about a week and then bam I was hooked again, I quit with a vicious drunken cold turkey. After those five days i still couldn't cope with the cravings and withdrawals. I,m not proud to admit but it was around 45g a day that i was using.
I turned to otc codeine products which is awful and something i never would have done. I then got codeine phosphate from my doctor but i was having really bad reactions to it, it wasn't working apart from taking away some of the withdrawals.
I went down the road for 2-3 months of steering clear from rc sites or places were I could buy legitimate opiate medication.
God knows how many cold turkeys i have put my self through but I have a doctor now, been in hospital and sent home. Seeing a drugs worker every two weeks.
I believed I could get some simple maintenance until i was clean such as clonidine atarax etc for this never ending opiate withdrawal. I think in the uk Britlofex is used although apparently not as effective as clonidine. I asked many a times for it but was refused. I was given a librium taper which proved to be quite successful but being the addict I am i still had some DHC.
So here I am still hooked and trying to maintain myself everyday until I am better. I have been forced this time into self medicating. Buying online. I still keep my regular drug appointments run by people who have never been addicted themselves.
I,m being very brief about myself and I am maintaining myself with one nootropic that i don't want to mention. By the way i have had a number of blood tests done after my nurofen plus binge and taking of lthe consumption of larger amounts of loperamide Imodium. Immodium Which I warn anyone who's considering doing it to be very careful about using it and only for a few days, then with a taper. Just google Mad Margaret. Even the FDA are aware about it being a drug of abuse. Theres a lot of good and bad info on the net about coping with opiate withdrawal.
The point is I know from a discussion with a couple of kratom users that they are either still getting it or turning to harder opiates.
I just want this to be open for anyone who is struggling with addiction still and finding the system very hard if they are seeking help. My writing isn't up to scratch sorry. But I hope anyone who is desperately fighting their addiction share if they still have to maintain themselves to function and looking for help, at least it is there, you don't have to use it as you also have it in you to battle your way out of it if you want to.
I guess this only applies to people who became physically addicted to the point were it has affected their mental health, life, family and dreams in life before drugs took hold. I am still in a dark place that I want the hell out of, I like getting high but unfortunetly the highs I like cause long term withdrawals. Yeah I am one who couldn't use just use once or twice a week a true addict for two years. I just hope the best for everyone who is struggling or to post their own story on how they got clean and remind us what a clean clear life is like, because i know its out
there, a beautiful life away from addiction.
31-07-2016, 06:46 PM
(This post was last modified: 31-07-2016, 06:47 PM by niamh.)
I think the post was very well put together, Mr.GP. I'm not going to say too much because I don't have any real personal experience with addiction of the kind you're talking about. But I just wanted to say that what really comes across in what you've written is how hard you're fighting to get to the kind of life you want, how you know the territory you're crossing on the way and you're still focused on the destination. I haven't been through that with addiction, but like a lot of people here I've had to struggle at points in my life to be the person I want to be. It's not the same, but maybe close enough for me to be able to say that I get what you're going through and to hope that telling you how much respect I have for your honesty and determination sounds real and not just words. I'm sure people with better informed perspective will have their own more useful things to say. But as far as I'm concerned your writing here was far more than just up to scratch.
best of luck on your journey....
for me its been a total blessing.
im pretty clean nowadays, occasional benzo and a bit of phenibut now and then... maybe some illegals if im at a festival.
i seem to have turned my fixation onto a totally different direction. im a bit of a gym rat now and in the best shape of my life.
maybe try find a healthy addiction?
Stuck on .5mg of diclazepam last thing at night with enough supplies to last me a couple of years at this rate but am intending to go down at the rate of .1mg a month which should see me benzo free by Christmas. My sleep is at best fitful and am using 1mg melatonin to cope with that can't say I'm overly suffering and glad not to have MPA porn binges within easy reach. sighs - those were the daze.....
still trying a taper but it aint working but i am running very low now on my noids so it wont be long till its cold turkey time. Must say im not looking forward to it and i cant wean myself off with the real deal as we get regular drug tests in my new employment
What noise are you smoking mate? I've both reduced the strength of my blends and am now only smoking a joint a day down from a blend 4 times as strong and smoking all day everyday. This is with MDMB-CHMICA (sold as MMB-CHMINACA) the withdrawals seem much worse than they are and the addiction is mostly psychological I found. Also a couple of days abstinence reduced my tolerance massively. Good luck man.
Coping well here but very much miss the escapism that I used to get with certain noids, and I refuse to pay silly money for blend on the street.
Cannabinoids are all over the streets of London and other cities now though causing a major issue with the homeless population, a complete step backwards IMO, as firstly it was the noids sold in headshops causing a large percentage of the problem, but at least some were a bit more selective who they sold to and had to at least have a proper business set up to sell like that.
I never really played around with the stimulants post Mephedrone (which I dislike anyway) as they were all pretty pointless and nowhere near as good as the illegal alternatives, bar maybe a tiny bit of MPA now and again. The same with the benzos really, towards the end, Etizolam was the only one I rated and it was still not as good as Diazepam IMO, and a recipe for disaster with the shorter half life.
Currently my options are limited to either breaking the law at huge £$ cost, which I tend to avoid or booze which I also detest. I have some Diazepam, Codeine and Propranalol prescribed on a use as and when basis but they are purely a "break glass in glass of emergency" type thing that I keep in the cupboard.
Sadly, irresponsible users, headshops that cared only about profit.. and of course the prohibitionists themselves have caused this disappointing situation.
I also have some CBD e-liquid that I made up from the crystalline, which is not bad and helps a bit for anxiety and insomnia.. but it's far from a strong effect.
To be honest I would probably enjoy smoking some cannabis but the prices compared to the cheap bars of hash from the 90's/00s and the cheaper weed from the similar era are long gone and £10 for a gram simply makes my blood boil and does not seem cost effective to me now days.
GOV 1 - 0 Psychonaughts
Hi Mr Green Plant - well it’s good to hear from you; to be sure it’s been a long struggle for you I hope this ban works as a point of motivation to get off drugs youre dependant on. As for coping - not much sign of the benzogeddon scenario some though would happen - I think a fair few used the ban as an opportunity to clean up there ways - still other have stock or the black markets filled the gap.
45g of Kratom a day is a fair bit; my habits aren’t of any gravity so I am coping. Again slowing tapering codeine. It’s good for a bit then gets too much in many respects and I taper down slowly in cycles. I have a little kratom but it’s a once in a while treat - really miss it - inetersted you found codeine more side effecty - kratom is both more pleasnt and tolerated better some how and more useful in some respects. I drink 5-6 unit of alcohol a night - not a huge amount but it would be better stopped like the codeine but when one isn’t all that happy it is easier to keep persuing these minor distractions. Benzos...tick, still not problematic in and of it’s self, like everything it’s there to “cope” to a degree - not an endless supply by any means so have to go careful.; post ban I have mainly stopped tripping though - done so much in the last few years including a load of behind the scenes testing - been going as hard as I could so holding off what bits and bobs are left - don’t regret it - interesting times but holding off a bit a the mo; I don’t have any real access to the blackmarket so RCs were a godsend and an encouragement tbh. Anyway hope you get yourself out of all this mate.
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law"
Damn, that's one thing I hadn't considered about this outright blank ban.. the effect on people who have developed dependency or who have come to rely on certain substances for health treatment where conventional treatments and drugs don't work as effectively.
I really feel for you guys.
That's another reason why the government hasn't thought this through properly or consulted widely enough by the look of it before passing such a serious piece of legislation into law.
Even if they were determined to do this, it surely would have been better to phase it in gradually.
Just as they did with the ban on unlicensed health supplements when that industry fell under EU regulation and was granted 2 years to license or withdraw from market. A similar approach here surely would have made more sense, and also allowed vendors, businesses and all affected parties, time to withdraw from certain products, and assess/find out which products are still legal.
At the moment, it's a huge mess.
We have people left without access to products now probably experiencing withdrawals and tying up GP surgeries (under under massive strain), with problems that could have been managed themselves with forums like this and peer support, (if allowed time).
And we also have many businesses and marketplaces, totally in the dark about what is legal and what isn't, due to the sheer ambiguity of this law and lack of any clear policy plan or enforcement guidance.
I think, it would be a good idea if we used forums like this (and all the others and the vendor sites) to launch an industry-wide e-petition on the government's own e-petition website.
The basis of the e-petition could be:
1) To ask the government to repeal the Act and consider drafting it better with much more specific aims and a better methodology, so that is doesn't remove safe and legitimate products from sale, or simply drive those products onto the darknet, thus depriving the government of tax revenue, turning legitimate businesses into illegitimate, and increasing consider safety risks.
2) If the government is not prepared to repeal and re-draft, then they should at least consider the impact on 10,000's of people (if not 100,000's) both consumers and business vendors and their livelihoods. And they could allow sufficient time before the Act takes affect. A period of 1-2 years, as was granted to the health supplements industry would not be unreasonable.
3) Engage with the industry and scientific/health advisors to see where the Act could be amended/revised to make it less ambiguous and bring more clarity to it on which substances are prohibited (perhaps with a banned/allowed list). That would seem to make a lot more sense, than banning everything psychoactive, then determining what is "psychoactive but legal". At least with a two-list approach, people could see what's legal and what isn't, and the government would have the flexibility to add things to the list under medical or scientific advisement. And likewise, things in doubt which are in a grey area right now (ie many nootropics) could be scientifically assessed during the next 2 years, and determined ok to be on the allowed list.
What do you guys think? Should we organize ourselves into an industry lobby and start an e-petition on the governments website? I think if we do, we'd need to be very clear on its aims, and what we're hoping to achieve it from it. Once an e-petition gets at least 100,000 signatures, it becomes eligible for debate in parliament (although that is entirely up to the government whether they decide the petition is worth debate).
I think it's a worth a shot.
04-08-2016, 07:56 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-08-2016, 07:58 PM by Xochipilli.)
Well the govt did consider the alledged health effect of poppers being banned so I am guessing they are aware; I am guessing they are very aware some are dependant but realise access to drugs won’t disappear for many and they think others will rightly pull there socks up and if it’s unpleasant so be it.
I will note some caution over what seem slightly narcissistic click and forget petitions as a substitutes for more genuine engagement with politics a la 38 degrees and the like; there are thousands of these splintered often contrey things often with little drive or sometimes much logic behind them. There are a lot of similar petitions languishing half filled. I would not be against what you say but any such thing need to mobilise a lot of people behind some simple likely and doable aims. You say eligable for debate which isn’t quite right - at the trigger amount of signatures they can rightly dismiss debate out of hand. That isn’t to be too dismissive but it would take some consideration - I suspect you can forget repealing the act and would have to ask for something more like clarification/modification of the law regarding nootropics or medicines but actually we aren’t even sure what the laws position is yet. Maybe some legal challenge or failure is more likely.
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law"