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Benzo analogues and tolerance
(01-12-2015, 07:31 AM)SteveBrule44 Wrote: Try and switch onto diclaz CSGO1337c, save those short acting punch benzo's for low tolerance. I don't know how long it takes but certainly clonazepam and flubromazolam seem to have upset peoples tolerance for months so I don't know if that's happening. Etiz is too fare and expensive to be taking mega doses like that in my opinion. BTW diclaz won't be nearly as much fun but will allow you to reset your tolerance safely.

Edit. Working out and eating right probably won't make a difference. Better to just accept it as a fixed amount of time and don't do it on consecutive days

Mate i really like these Diclaz id go as far as to say they are on of the best iv taken, iv got myself a taper script from DOC (Easy doctor) even though i dont have a REAL benzo problem just a big tolerance, going to finish this taper then start stocking up on the benzo's for a one off thing in the coming years

Is there a reason i can get fucked up on so little amount of alcohol (When not mixed with everything) because it was my understanding Benzo's bind to the same receptors
Not sure about the alc/benzo thing, just that flam nearly turned me into an alcoholic after topping(needed to double to get effects). But its a lot of theory in most part; gaba a/b receptors(alcohol and phenibut vs benzos(or other way round can't remember)). Be careful about tolerance and dependence, one usually follow the other in my experience.
Tolerance and dependance are just different stages in your bodies strategy of dealing with benzos. Tolerance is a warning your body has taken notice and is actively down regulating and/or decoupling receptors from your CNS. But that does not mean dependance has set in if you scale back use and stick to less frequent use and the milder benzos you will be generally OK although there are always exceptions. If you don't heed the warning though it will be taper time within a month or two. Cross tolerance between GABAa + b is a given but not as bad as continuing abusing either a or b alone. Maybe 50% as bad but if nothing else is working and you have a problem with either crossing to one or the other is the lesser of two evils. Phenibut will take the edge off a benzo WD and vice versa but does not provide total relief. Its why Alcohol detoxes are done with BZD Chlordiazepoxide ( Librium) it provides some relief but does not continue or add to the Alcohol problem. They are 2 seperate systems but there is some cross over. Its still poorly understood. However substituting one for another;the logical conclusion is a problem with the other down the road. IMO a taper is the best answer, cold turkeying from benzos is worse than an Opiate withdrawal and lasts too long for 90% of people to endure, may take 6-12 months from very heavy use wheras shor acting Opiates the worst is over in a week. Methadone is a different kettle of fish, why its the cornerstone of the government's Opiate statergy ( apart from cost its dirt cheap) is a mystery. Even a slow taper will end with protracted nastiness as its HL is around 100 hours in most people.
Since it's only being a few weeks, going to do rest of the 40mg of Diclaz today (Yes it takes me that much) move onto 3mg a day for a week then do the Diaz taper just to fend off any mild withdrawls, then of course stock up for next year when they're all gone :( theres been times over the year iv not even thought about Benzo's and then they just pop into my mind like a few weeks ago, im going to miss these little fuckers when i take them i have a really good laugh and can really be myself for a week, iv found them really really good for not smoking weed everyday like last month i smoked every day since i got these iv had maybe a few joints
(08-03-2015, 07:38 PM)Borderline Wrote: People are gonna get hurt soon by these hyper potents. I think most people can see where it going to lead. Therell be more casualties than on etizolam, but i suppose thats just the nature of the game. Thank you Blod for taking the care to express your concerns and position on the state of affairs, but i too think we could be in some manner at the forefront of prevention. No one wants a bad time and so just gotta keep researching i suppose. E : Meant to say your name being a flowing velvet blue might grab a few of the lurklings attention, peace x

My idea is that very few people get hurt and that the ban (for instance) is very strange for that reason too. I have read that 90.000 people die of smoking in the UK alone. And thousands die directly or indirectly by using booz (killing others in the proces of getting drunk). Then we have NSAIDs which seem to kill a lot too....

I have never used any substance like tobacco, weed in my life and only drank some alcohol when I was a student. But never since. But I still think people should do whatever they like with their body. By far the most users of RCs come across as pretty knowledgable, they know the dangers it seems to me but they just feel it is worth the risk.

The hyperpotency of those benzo's of course may cause problems for some, I agree, but when I look at the many fora where people KNOW that continuous use and upping doses will get them addicted and in for some very nasty withdrawals......I see many still doing it all the same. So in the end it may be that people are just people and that in most cases (unless something is as addictive as crystalmeth) the problem is not the substance, but the (ab)user...
Hurt not deed... all the best information and guidance in the world. This place is merly a cross section of peoples, admittedly probably the UK largest information source in the RC scene but we only see those ones wanting to learn more. WIll the place continue to offer the wealth of imformation it had on thee substances after the ban, will swim or another get out of jail free card. id imagine this places had a few potentialplan to pas on the value able lessons learnt.during these last 3 months ive witness 2 of my friends have BZD withdrawal seizures. One was with his  family afterafter decided to cold turkey flub and clon 'lam what he was a month, id place it closer to 2-3 weeks and the pain and the hurt on his family's face was undeniable, the other was with me after after he decided on an over rapid diclaz taper. Both of these user frequented these boards.

I take on board your point that users of other drugs are at harm and risk as well but we here are limmited in what advice we can give to them aside from seeking out a medical professional or at least finding another board to deal more directly with there problems. Im not sure if i can mention DF or BL for the addiction boards and those are a little more yank centric but they would be ale to offer help and tips on the non uk legal(soon to be all if the way thing are going) 

But i stand by that the prices of these chems and the escapism some of our user are after, especially with the stock piles soe have bought will not cause those and those arround them harm in the long and short term.


I would like to add addictiveness is subjective all depending on what the subject/person perceives as their need/vice

Oh and a small personal note of tollerance. Ive been following my diclz taper for about 6-8 weeks now dropping from 1mg daily to 1mg every two days after 2 weeks (Bit of a plasma jump) and ive had minimal noticeable ill effect, Occasinonally ive have 1mg every 36h hours depends on how 'frantic' (albeit minimally so, but better safe than sorry) i aim to keep to this 1mg/36-48H for the next two weeks then drop down 0.75/36-48H after new years. I found 1mg daily more than adequate after my initial flub'pam taper start. But the point of this being that despite 2 months on a moderate strict taper 8-10mg Etiz doesn't really touch the sides and also its still takes 2-2.5 flub-lam to put me under, This could be a hypnotic receptor over chanrge as i can feel the small amount of diclaz doing its stuff. My moral fortolleances is its gonna take a fuckkking long time
Try everything twice Because who knows, you might have got it wrong the first time
I've been going a bit heavy on these new Benzos and I wondering whether Diclazepam/Diazepam/Flubromazepam would best to manage my withdrawal(s)/taper? I've been experimenting for a few months now, initially just once every few weeks on Flubromazepam, Diclazepam (Which worked great at 1 mg per day for the couple of weeks I used it during a time when I had no Diazepam available for my taper. Back then I was on 10 mg Diazepam per day and felt relatively stable, but far from anywhere near comfortable.

Sorry I've rambled (Blame the Clonazolam!) and the Grammar Grammer spelling etc :p

Anyway, The last Month or so I've been taking anywhere between -
Clonazolam; 1.5mg - 3mg per Day.
Flubromazolam; 2mg - 3mg, maybe once or twice a week.
Etizolam; 5mg - 10mg, maybe just at the weekend, twice a week at most (Both brands - Etizest & Etilaam)
Flubromazepam; 16mg - 40mg, maybe once or twice a week.
Diclazepam/Diazepam; 1mg - 5mg/20-50mg Maybe once every couple of weeks (Saving it for my taper)
Meclonazepam; 24mg as a one off test; felt zero effects. Thought it was obviously tolerance I have, but no, I gave my friend who has zero tolerance 12mg Meclonazepam and he also reported no effects.

Out of the RC Benzos I haven't yet tried.. I have some Metizolam, Nifoxipam, and N-Desalkylflurazepam (Norflurazepam) due this week as I want them a try. Especially as I used to Love Flurazepam (Dalmane) I think 30mg?? for the few Year period when it was available to me. Beautiful Benzo, as is Flunitrazepam and Lormetazepam. [/url]


*Note It's now been nearly 2 hours since I took the Clonazolam (3 mg) and I'm definitely feeling it. Fancy taking some Etizolam though, as a couple of days ago I took my Clonazolam 2.5mg) waited around an hour and then consumed 5mg Etilaam Etizolam Which I initially thought were bunk as the previous Saturday 10mg didn't touch me. But combined with the Clonazolam they felt perfect. Maybe it was chance and I hadn't given the Clonazolam enough time to kick in..?? But usually I'm feeling it after 45 minutes. Anyway, within 45 minutes I felt as good as I can remember in a long time off Benzos (I'm just taken to take some 5mg of Etizest (5mg Etizolam - 2 hours after my dose of Clonazolam) now to see how they react with the Clonazolam compared to the Etilaam)

As you can see I'm in a little deeper than I'd like to be. My idea was to go clean for a few days (The Flubromazolam should carry me for a little while, and I aslo have a fair bit of Flubromazepam in my system which should hopefully shield me for a few days) Then in a few days/ when withdrawals begin to kick in, start taking 20mg Diazepam daily and see how that works out, give it a week or so to see where I'm at, that's if 20mg is enough to keep me out of acute withdrawal, or I may take Diclazepam 2mg per day, maybe alternate days with the Diazepam. My guess is 20mg will be too low a dose. The problem I find with Diclazepam is, it leaves me feeling more depressed than usual, and I know Benzos are not good for this, especially high doses, but even 1mg per day completely killed my sex drive/ability to get an erection.

My guess is I'm in for a ruff ride to say the least, especially as a lot of these newer Benzos are super strong and there is very little long term research into their effects. Can't say we weren't warned. My worry is my Diclazepam/Diazepam will not fully cover the withdrawal from all these new Pam's/Lam's.

Any ideas/advice on a taper schedule>? I know I'm in a bit of mess and should have learnt by now..

I once used to binge on 300mg Xanax over the course of 24 hours or so every weekend, for a good many months back in spring 2010 (Upjohn 1mg Alprazolam with the 0.9 imprint on them) Then in the summer I reduced my intake to daily 10 - 20mg for around a Month and then went cold turkey. That was my first Benzo withdrawal Cold turkey and I'd injured me hand at around that same time (Squashed Radial Nerve - I lost control of all movement in my left hand for weeks so I was signed off work. So I could at least try and ride out the withdrawals during my time off work. I can remember vividly; I took my last Benzo on 24th July 2010, spent the next 3 weeks of insomnia, Paranoia, hypersensitivity, hyperexcitability halluciinations, rebound anxiety, derealisation, loss of balance/coordination, headaches, sweats etc etc.. You get the picture.

One last thing: I Love Clonazolam, but has anyone else noticed any side effects such as extremely dry mouth.

Sorry about the essay.

Happy Easter Happy

just about to begin yet another Benzo taper after several previous dangerous and foolish cold turkey attempts from long term extreme abuse levels of various Benzos. One of them cold turkey's from a 20 - 30 mg a Day Xanax (Alprazolam) 2 Month or so binge (Bearing in mind I'd previously cold turkey'd off ridiculously high doses ofTemazepam (Brutal) and Diazepam, Alprazolam & various other Benzos etc etc..

The 20 - 30 mg a Day Xanax habit 'cold turkey' was the first time I'd ended up in hospital due to my Benzo use. Long story short, I completely lost the plot. Hallucinations, delusions, tremors, complete loss of reality, I didn't know the difference conscious and sub conscious if that makes any sense in a nonsensical way??!! I couldn't hardly walk, talk or even move my arms by the time I was taken to hospital (9 Days after the cold turkey) I was having to be spoon fed for days before I decided to ask my family to take me to the hospital. I should have went much sooner really in hindsight. Anyway, by far the most traumatic experience of my life by a long way! There is a lot more to the story but I'd be here all night..

Anyway, this past Month or so I've been enjoying some of these newer/just found/released Benzos, especially as my tolerance was fairly low, due to me tapering from the 30 mg Diazepam per day I was taking back in October 2015, down to 5 - 10 mg per day/every other day or so by December. I purchased a load of various 'newer' Benzos with Clonazolam being the most effective (Although saying that; The Clonazolam I tested around 1 hour 15 minutes ago is having little/reduced effects than normal. I took 3 mg - 6 x 0.5 mg pellets from Researchchemist.co.uk which usually have me rocking, but I'm feeling like that tolerance has finally caught up with me. They were the last of that batch of Yellow 0.5 mg pellets which I've had for a few weeks and mantained a decent level of effectiveness (Suprisingly) 1.5 - 2.5 mg every night or every other night always done the job. Sometimes alternating between different Benzos.. 

*EDIT - This is all jumbled and incomplete. I messed up when I was trying clear it all up. Apologies
Think you need a supervised taper or a chat with Blodwyn

I wish you all the best
(06-04-2015, 06:49 AM)Tempz Wrote: Speaking as a long time sedative pill popper, I can pretty much safely say I've went through every stage of denial from "I don't need them" all the way up to "these pills are bunk."

When my habit was a little heavier, I used to reckon Diclazepam totally useless under double figure doses, and Pyrazolam was flat out not even effective, Etizolam pellets were only good if dosed by the handful,  It took over 100mg of Flubromazepam for me to black out, heck, if I were to have been hospitalised and needed benzo's in anyway, they wouldn't be able to dose me with enough to even crack a whip at how high my usage was.

My use has slowed, a whole lot, owing to a change in lifestyle, easy access to Valium and vendors seemingly taking weeks to post things out, so I've had time to reflect, I've witnessed someone close to me fall into a benzodiazapine-withdrawal induced seizure, I've sat through hellish withdrawals recently, even though my tolerance is at an all time low (20mg of Valium seemed to get me off my rocker the other week, which makes a nice change from a few mg of Clonazolam not touching the sides.) wondering why I've managed to skip over the really bad bits, 2 years of benzo abuse, only one panic attack, no seizures, but believe you me, the withdrawals are still not my favourite time of the week.

I used to think I was immune to benzo addiction, like all benzo addicts, I used to comment on the quality of X vendors pellets being stronger/better/prettier/feed-my-addiction-betterer than Y vendors, I was one of those people, I would argue to your face that 2mg Etizolams, were indeed something around the 0.5 mark, I'd pick vendors for their quality of generics(!) when in reality they're all the same really. Despite two (yes, two) GP/Clinic assisted complete detoxes (and I did remain clean for a good while each time), I fell back into the trap. 

The honest truth is, they enable me, nay, give me an excuse to do ill-advised things, they give me something to spend my money on which I consider more productive than other drugs (oddly), they get me by, day by day, they provide the effects I expect them to provide, confidence and relaxation, or at least, they used to. I am physically addicted, because they fuel my mental addiction to "bad behavior."

It pains me to see people popping benzos, grey, black or white market like sweets, telling me they can stop them whenever they want, because while it might be true for a short while, it's going to comeback and kick you several times right in the fucking urethra. 

These "super potents" or the *Zolams in reality pose no more or no less of a danger than regular benzo's, Etizolam was the problem child because of it's insane 4 hour duration of effects, not to say that they still aren't the devil in fucking disguise and not to say that any other benzo can't be as addictive and damaging, but I expect less problems with the current stock of benzo's than in the Etizolam days, bar Flubromazolam, which can cause even a heavy addict (and I've experienced this myself) to have his tolerance shot so high into the fucking sky you can't AFFORD to keep up for several weeks, so what do you do? You withdraw, you suffer, you vomit, you toss, you turn, you sweat it out.

It's a sad state of affairs when withdrawals become an accepted part of life. 

But alas, here we are, junkies united imparting knowledge on sources of the best clearnet or darkweb perscriptions, pellets, powders and PG solutions to each other, dead certain that we are right, our sources are the best, it fills that hole, it feeds out demon and it keeps us ticking from day to fucking day.

So, to those of you wondering if your pellets are underdosed, or even if your tolerance has increased from use, if you haven't quite sussed it out from my tone by now.

They aren't and it has...

Trust me.


(21-05-2015, 01:15 AM)dell Wrote: just to add my 2 cents lads, I have being precribed benzos for years and I can tell you I regret ever being put on them, I wish my doc warned me how addictive they are.
If some of ye guys are addicted to rc benzos and a ban comes in I hope ye can find a good doc that will prescribe ye a long half lasting benzo like Librium or Diazepam and wean ye off them. Going cold turkey off benzos would make coming off opiates look like a picnic. Benzos are by far the most addictive drugs out there.

(01-03-2016, 02:05 AM)Renton Wrote: See a different GP and explain the issues you had with your current one, he sounds misinformed at best.

If you can afford to, see a private consultant.

If you really need to go down the route of RC benzos for tapering.  I hear Diclazepam is pretty good for it, Pyrazolam as stated in teh above post is very good as a functional benzo.  No need to try and find equivalent doses, start with one pellet and if you start feeling withdrawals add another, but do not get into the habit of doing this frequently as it can easily lead to falling back into the trap

I'm addicted to 60mg unprescribed diaz andn being given a soul destroying run around and fob off by theh doctor and the drug agency.
They treat me as if I have done something morally wrong.
Drug addiction is a symptom of a sick culture.
Drug agencies, doctors and govt need to moderneize their negative attitudes to the people who are showing the symptoms of a sick culture.
IT is not just an individual thing it is a cultural thing.
MH&drug services working  2 decide way frwrd. New Borderline Personality Diagnosis. They can only script a limited amount and told me to stay safe in the meantime. Sold my diclaz cos too nervous to hav so many in flat, just a months supply, and buy each mth.
Benzo tolerance rises incredibly quickly, the equivalent of going from 4 pints of mild knocking you out to 3 bottles of vodka. It doesn't mean it's not having an effect on you as in many ways I find them more subtle than alcohol, but you might when you stop.

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