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Anxiety, and recreational purposes
#1
Hello fellow researchers! Hoping a few of you can give m suggestions for good benzo analogs, that will help with my anxiety disorder, and also take at times for recreational value. Keep in mind that I'll need to dose daily for anxiety. I realize that my tolerance will shoot up, etc., but I so bad need it daily, and unable to find a doctor that will write for pharma benzos. I've tried a handful of benzo analogs, for their recreational values that include Eiz, Clonazolam, Flubromazolam, Diclazepam, and Nitrazolam, but never took them at a lower dose daily, for my anxiety.
Thank you to all that will reply..
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#2
(12-04-2018, 03:22 PM)BustmBama Wrote: Hello fellow researchers! Hoping a few of you can give m suggestions for good benzo analogs, that will help with my anxiety disorder, and also take at times for recreational value.

We can't give you medical advice here.However, I would say that based on the experiences I've seen from people who've gone down this path, self-medicating for anxiety disorders does not tend to work well.
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#3
I'm not a doctor either, but I can tell you this: if you WANT an anxiety disorder, daily benzo use of any kind will get you there very quickly indeed.

I'm not in any way trying to make light of your current situation, but however bad it is, abusing benzos, which is what you're suggesting even if they are therapeutically effective, will make everything worse.

There are too many who have gone down the road you are looking to embark along, some are no longer with us, those who are regret it.

Find another way.
'The trouble is, we think we have time."
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#4
The usual suspects have already said it, but indeed long-term benzo use isn't going to work well. Bluntly - and this is my personal opinion, not medical advice - most are not served well for anxiety by the co-option of anti-depressants or atypical antipsychotics to such purposes either. So, in short, I can't recommend you a drug-based option that's better than a cup of tea. 

I will advise that you distinguish your two purposes one from the other. Depending upon the scope and nature of your anxiety, you may be able to find narrower approaches to that issue that probably won't delight you much as recreational drugs, and contrarily that recreational drugs will tend to interplay with anxiety (for good or ill) but are darn sure not precluded by it. In short, you have the cart before the horse unless and until you look at what are you trying to treat?  If the answer is "I fancy getting wasted", I don't know of much that's better than the old standards. If you'd like to explore any aspects of what this anxiety disorder means to you (whether symptom or causal condition), I'm no expert, but lived with generalised anxiety disorder for ~30 years. I'm curious how you can assert that you 'will need' to dose daily - most anxiety is situation related. 

Without condoning or suggesting any of the RC benzos to your intended purpose, I wonder if yours is the classic problem of anxiety about anxiety itself. Which is to say, a lot of people were desperate to stockpile what they might need. Consider whether what you have may be more adequate than you think it is, forget daily use, and you may be good to go.
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#5
I do very much appreciate all of you fellow UKCR members enlightening me on more than probably what my outcome will turn out, with my daily dosing of certain benzodiazepine analogs, for my, yes daily GAD, Panic, PTSD, Agoraphobia, w depression. Witnessed, n survived horrible events back in April of 2011, as an F-4 tornado tore through our town of Tuscaloosa, Alabama (YouTube). Devastated, n destroyed about 2/3 of the local home's, businesses, etc. Just in last 2 years, I see we're finally able to say We're Back!
The scene of death, screams, chaos, etc..still haunts me night, n daily. I do have a Psychologist/Psychiatrist for my issues. Currently taking 45mg Mirtazipine at bedtime, 20mg Lexapro, n just started as of 6 weeks now, 2mg Xanax as needed for Panic x 60 a month.. Been on this cocktail for last 6 1/2 years now. Wanting to ween off the Xanax, n maybe try benzo analogs, maybe even Pyrazolam. Main reason being is that all my medical shit, including medications mentioned, are being solely funded by cash, as I have no insurance at all. Medications are right at $ 272 monthly, not including my therapy sessions. Disability check monthly, but barely enough to survive on, when said n done. STRUGGLING, but SURVIVING by God!!! 
I pray on this situation often. Letting God handle it! 
Sorry for my long drawn out rant lol, but need to vent, especially to people that understand me. Again, thanks for all your comments, and all are very truly welcome.. STAY SAFE!!!!
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#6
My sympathy to you BustmBama. Again, I'm no doctor and this isn't medical advice. You mention you'd like to ween off the Xanax you are taking, so you are aware of the issues involved with taking benzos regularly and in ceasing use. These problems, of course, apply equally to all RC benzos. You mention pyrazolam, which is typically referred to as a pure anxiolytic and this is true. It is probably the benzo which is least obvious when a person has taken it, which is not to say it can't produce the odd wobble and slurred word at higher doses. It has horrendous withdrawals, just like any other benzo. And of course it is cheap and quite fast-acting. I don't have experience with xanax to offer any comparison, but I imagine the saving would be substantial, were it to be equally efficacious. Most other RC benzos are either incredibly strong, as in waking up naked in the zoo with a suitcase full of toothbrushes and a new tattoo strong, or cause a lasting raise in tolerance which would likely disrupt current regimes. All of this with the proviso that taking any form of benzo is bad news.

Another option to explore might be phenibut. This is still an addictive substance and still produces withdrawals when misused, though of a lower order to benzos. Both the HCL and FAA form are effective, provided they are cycled, although onset is around 20 minutes, with peak usually 1-2 hours later. This substance can lower anxiety, make a person more sociable and provide a restful nights sleep. The FAA form is a little stronger and can be taken sub-lingually for a quicker onset. This could be an alternative to popping a xanax "as needed". Doses do need to be kept low and irregular.

It is an unfortunate truth that there doesn't seem to be any non-addictive antidote for trauma other than time and the support of friends/family. Whilst this healing is occurring, it's generally best to seek the most natural chemical assistants available. Make sure you keep your Psychiatrist aware if you change anything and engage with people as often as you can, here included.

Good luck BustmBama.
'The trouble is, we think we have time."
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#7
(27-05-2018, 09:17 PM)AiwassATeenageKeyframe Wrote: My sympathy to you BustmBama. Again, I'm no doctor and this isn't medical advice. You mention you'd like to ween off the Xanax you are taking, so you are aware of the issues involved with taking benzos regularly and in ceasing use. These problems, of course, apply equally to all RC benzos. You mention pyrazolam, which is typically referred to as a pure anxiolytic and this is true. It is probably the benzo which is least obvious when a person has taken it, which is not to say it can't produce the odd wobble and slurred word at higher doses. It has horrendous withdrawals, just like any other benzo. And of course it is cheap and quite fast-acting. I don't have experience with xanax to offer any comparison, but I imagine the saving would be substantial, were it to be equally efficacious. Most other RC benzos are either incredibly strong, as in waking up naked in the zoo with a suitcase full of toothbrushes and a new tattoo strong, or cause a lasting raise in tolerance which would likely disrupt current regimes. All of this with the proviso that taking any form of benzo is bad news.

Another option to explore might be phenibut. This is still an addictive substance and still produces withdrawals when misused, though of a lower order to benzos. Both the HCL and FAA form are effective, provided they are cycled, although onset is around 20 minutes, with peak usually 1-2 hours later. This substance can lower anxiety, make a person more sociable and provide a restful nights sleep. The FAA form is a little stronger and can be taken sub-lingually for a quicker onset. This could be an alternative to popping a xanax "as needed". Doses do need to be kept low and irregular.

It is an unfortunate truth that there doesn't seem to be any non-addictive antidote for trauma other than time and the support of friends/family. Whilst this healing is occurring, it's generally best to seek the most natural chemical assistants available. Make sure you keep your Psychiatrist aware if you change anything and engage with people as often as you can, here included.

Good luck BustmBama.

I want to again thank you so very much for all this fantastic input on my situation. You know, Phenibut totally slipped my mind. I was aware of it back when I was using RC benzos, but never tried it.. Even though you have to dose quite a bit more (a helluva lot more), it is very inexpensive, compared to what I'm shelving out now on my meds. Think I'm gonna drop the Lexapro, n take maybe 3 months to taper off the Alprazolam. Thinking on keeping the Remeron, but actually cutting the 45mg in half. Reviews I've heard from others, as well as some doctors, state that a lower dose helps better, especially for insomnia (another disorder of mine). So 22.5mg may be efficient for that purpose. Wondering if ok to start dosing the Phenibut during my Xanax taper, to ease some withdrawal that probably will arise? Safe, or not? All about HR, n my health. Can you please give me some input on dosages of this Phenibut? Also, would I need to take daily (maintenance), or like Xanax, as needed for my episodes? Also, reminding you that my GAD alone, is a daily thing..
And again, so much obliged to you, n the others for the valuable information pertaining to my situation. You guys are truly a blessing for me! Keep the faith, and STAY SAFE!!!!
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#8
I've been on Etizolam daily for over six years now and while I bow to the more experienced members judgement here I personally have found it a Godsend, I take a couple a day for the most part and it still works wonders. Never felt like taking more - just makes me sleepy, I'm sure giving them up may well have it's problems but I won't be doing that anytime soon.
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#9
Late afterthought. With the usual "not medical advice" disclaimer, I think we across the pond have perhaps under-weighted what you said about the costs, both relative and absolute. I would be hurt over paying $270 / £210 a month for escitalopram, mirtazapine, alprazolam. FWIW I concur with you about dropping escitalopram (Lexapro - SSRI) as likely to be redundant alongside mirtazapine (Remeron). You are correct that the latter is helpful for sleep at lower doses; I've known people to use 15mg and 45mg so you're on the right track. The further info from you leads me to a mixed response. 

For the set of diagnoses that you describe, and whilst a medication-based approach is desired, you could ask your psychiatrist about monotherapy with quetiapine (Seroquel, but I refer to quetiapine fumarate, which is available as generic). You might like to know that, when I started taking it in 2012, I was at first offered Seroquel XR (and you probably will be; use caution). Our National Health Service had just sent round a memo instructing that patients be switched to the generic, immediate-release quetiapine fumarate. It is not a panacea, and not to be preferred over getting off benzos full stop if this is possible. Indeed, quetiapine is controversial; used long term there is weight gain and I should also direct you to this skepticism of limited evidence prescribing practices. Particularly: "Little is known about the reasons for off-label prescribing, but a historical perspective of sedative and hypnotic prescribing trends shows a move from barbiturates in the 1920s to the 1950s15 and then to benzodiazepines from the 1960s,16 mainly because of safety concerns. More recently there have been increasing concerns about the harms of benzodiazepines, in particular alprazolam17 which was rescheduled from Schedule 4 to 8 in 2014.18 When prescribers are confronted with requests for prescriptions to treat anxiety and insomnia they are aware of the hazards of benzodiazepines, but may not have access to, or skills in, psychological therapies.19,20 Quetiapine has sedative effects, so it is possible that quetiapine is being prescribed instead of benzodiazepines due to perceptions regarding safety and efficacy." Structurally, it's a thienodiazepene. I do not advance (nor share) a view that "because x, therefore you need y"; so far what I've suggested looks like harm reduction as compared with SSRI+TCA+BZD and, if required at all, it's likely as a means to an end. Among the second-generation antipsychotics, quetiapine has dose-dependent binding affinity for various different receptors which lends it anti-depressant as well as anti-psychotic properties.

Now, an obvious thought for you. Subject to what a pharmacy can fill (a fine thing to find out), you could ask to be prescribed generic escitalopram rather than Lexapro, generic mirtazapine rather than Remeron, and generic alprazolam rather than Xanax. So I had a quick look, figuring that alprazolam wasn't going to be among any of these discount drug programs - and came up with something better than expected.

"Rx Outreach is a non-profit, mail-order pharmacy that provides over 500 affordable medications to people in need. We have provided prescription medications to over 500,000 patients. Rx Outreach was a program that was developed by a subsidiary of Express Scripts, Inc. in 2004. In 2010, Express Scripts spun off Rx Outreach to be a stand-alone, charitable organization in order to improve access to prescription medicines for low-income, uninsured patients." (I've linked you straight to the eligibility criteria to avoid false hopes; from what you say, they appear to be met...) If they're an option, the prescriptions listed in your May post would weigh in at $30 for 90 days' worth of mirtazapine, $15 for 90 days' worth of escitalopram and $18 for 90 days' worth of alprazolam. That's $63 versus $816 for 90 days, taking ~$250 a month off the cost.
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