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Another (almost) bad trip on 4-Aco-DMT
#1
I’m still trying to figure out what went wrong. Was it my current mental state (I’ve been experiencing the usual symptoms of seasonal depression)? Was it because I turned off the lights to try to enjoy the CEVs? Is it possible that shrooms just don’t agree with me? Or was it a combination of the aforementioned? One thing is certain, I should have known better than doing a new psychedelic (new to me, obviously) without set and setting being 100% ideal.

At 10PM I railed 15mg of 4-Aco-DMT. At first I wasn’t noticing much of anything except that everything in my field of vision seemed strangely blue-tinged. After about 40 min I was ready to say that it just didn’t affect me when suddenly I felt sleepy. So, this is sedating after all. Time to put some music, turn off the lights and lay in bed.

Music sounded good (though not particularly enhanced as with other psychs I’ve done) but the CEVs were the usual ocean of vibrating colours and a million different breath-taking forms. I was feeling quite good at that point.

After about 15 min, I began to feel anxious. I quickly put the light back on and tried to regain my composure. I could control the fear if I wanted. I could control anything if I found the will to do so. So, I turned off the light again and put on my headphones.

5 min later and I was now experiencing a full-blown anxiety attack. The colourful forms in my vision also seemed to have become very menacing all of a sudden, though I’m not sure if this was just a figment of my imagination. What should I do now? I left my bedroom and turned on the TV in the living room in the hopes that it could help me distract. Big mistake. There was a movie on that I very much like, but something was wrong – the image was constantly distorted in a bizarre way to the point that I wasn’t even sure which movie I was seeing. I immediately turned off the TV and went back to my room to take a shitload of etizolam and abort the trip. I proceeded to chat online with other members of this forum, hoping that I could calm myself enough to not freak out even more than I already had. The next 10 min seemed to last forever and made me feel miserable, but I eventually felt the etiz kicking in. At that point, what could have been a seriously bad trip was over.

I don’t see which lesson I should take from this trip. Do not trip when you have seasonal depression? Respect this stuff and don’t assume that every trip will go well just because you have tripped on acid several times? Honestly, the only silver lining for me is that I had the means to abort this trip when the shit hit the fan.
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#2
(06-02-2017, 02:42 AM)RSaddicted Wrote: I’m still trying to figure out what went wrong. Was it my current mental state (I’ve been experiencing the usual symptoms of seasonal depression)? Was it because I turned off the lights to try to enjoy the CEVs? Is it possible that shrooms just don’t agree with me? Or was it a combination of the aforementioned? One thing is certain, I should have known better than doing a new psychedelic (new to me, obviously) without set and setting being 100% ideal.

At 10PM I railed 15mg of 4-Aco-DMT. At first I wasn’t noticing much of anything except that everything in my field of vision seemed strangely blue-tinged. After about 40 min I was ready to say that it just didn’t affect me when suddenly I felt sleepy. So, this is sedating after all. Time to put some music, turn off the lights and lay in bed.

Music sounded good (though not particularly enhanced as with other psychs I’ve done) but the CEVs were the usual ocean of vibrating colours and a million different breath-taking forms. I was feeling quite good at that point.

After about 15 min, I began to feel anxious. I quickly put the light back on and tried to regain my composure. I could control the fear if I wanted. I could control anything if I found the will to do so. So, I turned off the light again and put on my headphones.

5 min later and I was now experiencing a full-blown anxiety attack. The colourful forms in my vision also seemed to have become very menacing all of a sudden, though I’m not sure if this was just a figment of my imagination. What should I do now? I left my bedroom and turned on the TV in the living room in the hopes that it could help me distract. Big mistake. There was a movie on that I very much like, but something was wrong – the image was constantly distorted in a bizarre way to the point that I wasn’t even sure which movie I was seeing. I immediately turned off the TV and went back to my room to take a shitload of etizolam and abort the trip. I proceeded to chat online with other members of this forum, hoping that I could calm myself enough to not freak out even more than I already had. The next 10 min seemed to last forever and made me feel miserable, but I eventually felt the etiz kicking in. At that point, what could have been a seriously bad trip was over.

I don’t see which lesson I should take from this trip. Do not trip when you have seasonal depression? Respect this stuff and don’t assume that every trip will go well just because you have tripped on acid several times? Honestly, the only silver lining for me is that I had the means to abort this trip when the shit hit the fan.

Eventually, if you trip enough your're (probarbly?) going to have a bad one. It's inevitable?

I believe quiet often there's a honeymoon period with psychedelics, then the possiblity of some dark stuff getting stirred up from within becomes apparent.

Stanislav Grof (psychiatrist and pioneer psychedelic therapist) observed that "troubling" thoughts/emotions/moods/stuff that's on your mind,
tended to naturally come up to the fore of consciousness with psychedelics. You recognized what was happening and knew to distract yourself: That's good.
I think you could call that a learning experience.

By the way, I highly reccomend two of Stanislav Grof's books. To me, they give understanding and make plausible sense of many types of experience with psychedelics -

Realms of the Human Unconscious: Observations from LSD Research


Code:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Realms-Human-Unconscious-Observations-Research-Condor-Books/0285648829/ref=sr_1_4?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1486432035&sr=1-4[/color]

and

LSD Psychotherapy


Code:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Psychotherapy-Healing-Potential-Psychedelic-Medicine/dp/0979862205/ref=sr_1_15?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1486432035&sr=1-15
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#3
May offer a slightly different explanation. I think the lesson the trip was trying to impart was very clear but, like many lessons, it was what you needed, rather than wanted, to hear.

It could be put down to seasonal depression but I suspect it goes much deeper and was a strong warning about where your life is at and where the predictive aspect of your subconscious believes you are going. Our conscious minds are geared up to deal with the daily world and the evidence of our senses, but all that information doesn't stay conscious, it gets stored and processed deeper inside.

Saying that people should only trip when happy is just half the story. You have to be happy in the right way about the right things. It requires the happiness that comes from having taken the correct actions in multiple situations, the resulting self-respect, the non-egotistical pride. Loving yourself rightly. This is a very different thing from the fleeting hapiness that comes from hearing a joke or having a good night out.

Trips, particularly strong ones, are a means of self-examination and not a means of escape. They go deep. And if the stuff that's stored down there represents repeated failures, disappointments or unresolved problems, if basically the future appears to look bleak, then it's all going to be laid out bare to see and will result in the obvious response. The majority, of course, never look there.

The good news is that it can all be made positive again in a holographic way, by which I mean changes in one place affect the whole. If you've done things you wish you hadn't lately, if you've made a string of wrong decisions and found yourself being punished hard by the world, then I'd attempt to list those things and work on them. If you can do them again and fix the issue that's best. But just a simple genuine admittance that you did something wrong and a firm commitment that you'll do the right thing next time can also be enough to satisfy your unconscious and let it know that your on it and capable. The trip is saying what will happen if you remain on the current road in the same car. If you let it know you intend to change your vehicle and take different roads, the mind will react positively straight away.

This is what bads trips are, IMHO. We don't wear out our tripping bone, it's just as possible to have a truly transcendent and beautiful trip at the 1000th attempt as at the first. What happens is that we fall in way described above. And those who fall can climb back up.

I hope this post doesn't piss you off RS, and it's just one possible explanation, though it's one which does account for the wide spectrum of experience reported by those researching this type of chemical.
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#4
I think rather than happiness being the right mindset to trip in, what's important is actually clear intention. I've certainly tripped while at difficult points in my life with the intent of gaining insight into my situation and this has been very helpful for me at times. I wouldn't suggest that this is something anyone should undertake lightly or without being very confident about what they're doing, but it's been very effective for me.

I've had difficult trips, but I've never had a bad trip. Part of this is down to expectation - I don't expect every trip to be without stress or anxiety and when unhappy feelings or unpleasant thoughts come up I prefer to explore them rather than fight them or avoid them by ending the trip early. Difficult trips are often the most useful, precisely because exploring those feelings can lead to the kinds of insights 2Cor13:1 is talking about above.

One way to think of this is as psychedelics as powerful allies - they want to help, but if you give them confusing or contradictory information about what you're trying to achieve that power can get directed in ways you weren't expecting or ready for. (I don't think this is literally true, but seeing things via what the philosopher Daniel C. Dennett calls the intentional stance is a useful tool).
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#5
Thank you all for your insight. I did manage to trip the following day on this same substance again (I used 30mg instead of 15mg). It still wasn't very pleasant even though I managed to control the anxiety. While I don't disagree with the hypothesis that this was some kind of warning from my subconscious, I believe that the sedation and absence of euphoria were also partially responsible for the negative experience. The body load was also a major factor -- I felt very cold and shivery both times I tripped on this chemical. So, rather than just one explanation, I believe it was a combination of things -- mindset, body load, difficult message and sedation.
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#6
Well, I see that you already knew what I was trying to say and Niamh said it better.

A perfect response RS, I'm glad the earlier experience didn't discourage you.
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#7
It sure is positive to read the amount of interest and insight being developed through and relating to the use of these drugs - where their is progress their is hope.

I'm getting a lot of reports of 4-aco being difficult or outright kicking ass - in a less than enjoyable way. And experiencing the same myself. Still I'm sold, she's difficult but worth it.

I'm finding this: it's got a councillor/guru thing going on, and can really draw your issues out and make you face yourself. I've wrestled with my demons on it a heap - sometimes this has been entirely positive (though cathartic and troubled), other times unpleasant. But not bad I think.

I figure that, like striking up a positive relationship with somebody, a certain amount of energy and creativity needs to be applied before it takes on a life of it's own and a positive,s elf sustaining plateau is achieved, Like trust, and mutual value. Iif you've done a load of psychedelics before you might become blaze - i've done it all before it'll be fine. Like taking a relationship you've built for granted - it's done, ain't it? why keep bothering... I find it demands appreciation and interest, if you don't care for the shapes + colours and are inattentive the you may not be accepted as a friend and it can turn on you. How can you trust someone you can't please? I find that if I take it with positive expectations and gladly receive, positively exploit it's values I can enter the flow and be gone with it. But as corinth says issues in your life surface and a lot of my struggles on it very obviously relate to ongoing issues I face. If you've got demons you can expect battles. This is one of the great reasons to sort life out - a good life =s lot's of super trips! And wow, can they be great...

I got scared of it and disinclined to dose - I was a little tired, had eaten a big greasy meal and was feeling a little uncomfortable, not 100%. 'You worry too much' I said, and dosed. It was awesome. I could say exactly the same for DMT - it showed me a beautiful, ornate yet slightly childish heart which drifted toward me real smooth and slow, and I immediately understood it was making the point it would be nice and I didn't need to fear it. As soon as I understood this and relaxed it went crazy like only DMT can. So long as your set/setting is decent you should be good to go... don't fear it too much.
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