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5 and 6 difference
#21
Only the HCl SB, never had the succinate. I know you found it very different to me didn't you? Other way round IIRC?
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#22
Have tried the 5-apb Hcl a couple of times, once on it's own and then self mixed with 6-apb succinate. Only difference for me was a lower dosage curve compared to 5-apb succinate.
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#23
Yeah, it's strange to me that your experiences have been so at odds with mine.

As far as I know 6-APB should be the more stimulating and pushy of the two (having more dopaminergic action than 5-APB, which in turn is more serotonergic) although I know there are others who have reported experiences matching yours.
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#24
In all honesty I don't know the chemistry well enough SB, but then seems noone else really does either reading around. I think in both cases dopamine release is a consequence of the APB's agonism of 5HT2a if I understand things correctly, don't think either have affinity for D1/D2 in and of themselves so whichever has more push at 5HT2a should also feel more dopaminergic, although saying that activity at 5HT2c would inhibit dopamine release I think and 6-APB at least is believed to have activity there so is perhaps the less dopaminergic of the two? I can't seem to find what activity 5-APB has there. chin

I wonder if the actual balance of neurotransmitters to receptors in a particular individual is what might account for differences in subjective effect, how up or down regulated one system is relative to the other for example? Then again this could be hopelessly confused and thanks to my very limited understanding is in fact complete bollox! lol
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#25
I'm just extrapolating from the values for 5 and 6-apdb, but

Quote: In vitro studies show that 5-APDB acts as a highly selective serotonin releasing agent (SSRA), with IC50 values of 130 nM, 7,089 nM, and 3,238 nM for inhibiting the reuptake of serotonin, dopamine,

Quote: In vitro, 6-APDB has been shown to inhibit the reuptake of serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine with IC50 values of 322 nM, 1,997 nM, and 980 nM, respectively.

those figures indicate that 6 substitution leads to greater DA/NE action. The structure activity relationships for the other APB compounds should follow suit to a reasonable extent, and those figures seem to fit my experiences with 5-APB at least..
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#26
SB, Bo, do either of you have similar to the below but for 6-APB perchance? Should 6-APB HCl be more potent than the succinate as per the 5?

Quote:5-APB HCl = 211.688 g/mol
5-APB freebase = 175.23 g/mol
5-APB Succinate = 293.315 g/mol

This means that 5-APB HCl is 82.77% 5-apb and 5-APB Succinate (the old stuff) it would be 59.74% 5-apb.

100mg of 5-apb base = 100mg 5-APB
100mg of 5-APB HCL = 82.77mg 5-APB & 17.23mg HCL
100mg of 5-APB Succinate = 59.74mg 5-APB & 40.26mg Butanedioic acid
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#27
I can't really see why the ratios would be any different Sepher, since the molecular mass for the two compounds is the same. I'll wait for someone else to confirm though.
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#28
(05-12-2012, 09:55 PM)Sepher Wrote: SB, Bo, do either of you have similar to the below but for 6-APB perchance? Should 6-APB HCl be more potent than the succinate as per the 5?

Quote:5-APB HCl = 211.688 g/mol
5-APB freebase = 175.23 g/mol
5-APB Succinate = 293.315 g/mol

This means that 5-APB HCl is 82.77% 5-apb and 5-APB Succinate (the old stuff) it would be 59.74% 5-apb.

100mg of 5-apb base = 100mg 5-APB
100mg of 5-APB HCL = 82.77mg 5-APB & 17.23mg HCL
100mg of 5-APB Succinate = 59.74mg 5-APB & 40.26mg Butanedioic acid

5-apb and 6-apb have the same molecular mass.
So what I said before is identical for both 5-apb and 6-apb
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#29
So to all intents and purposes I could rewrite that table substituting 6-APB for the 5 and it would be exactly applicable, like this:

6-APB HCl = 211.688 g/mol
6-APB freebase = 175.23 g/mol
6-APB Succinate = 293.315 g/mol

This means that 6-APB HCl is 82.77% 6-APB and 6-APB Succinate (the old stuff) it would be 59.74% 6-APB.

100mg of 6-APB base = 100mg 6-APB
100mg of 6-APB HCL = 82.77mg 6-APB & 17.23mg HCL
100mg of 6-APB Succinate = 59.74mg 6-APB & 40.26mg Butanedioic acid

Correct?
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#30
Yesserie
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