• 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5


4-Me-TMP, oral
#1
4-Me-TMP

23 mg oral @ 1120h.

Mild feeling of tension / anxiety at T+7m, probably idiopathic and did not escalate, probably nothing more than new drug anxiety. Slightest hint of a feeling of nausea or biliousness at T+10m, likewise.

Possible first hints of increased alertness at T+18m. Subtle but I think it's there. No obvious adverse effects persist, perhaps very minor gastric discomfort but barely detectable if it's even there. Nothing strong good or bad as yet. 

Tea is made. Effect is subtle at T+30m, some enhanced alertness but no obvious physical stimulation.

Nothing more to add at T+1h, mild alertness but this was an insufficient dosage to achieve anything useful (70kg male, empty stomach). No negatives to report either.

Redosing is seriously considered at T+2h, although I’m aware this is supposed to have a 6h duration I don’t feel any great amount of residual stim. Obviously, a more substantial dose will be needed. The wisdom or not of this is pondered, but users have already sampled 80mg at a single dose and I can’t imagine it doing any great harm. I have beta-blockers and benzos on hand if needed, not that I imagine they will be.

49mg oral @ 1355h.

Firstly, it is a relative vote of confidence that I was happy and willing to ingest a second dose at twice the size of the first. I’m no stim fiend and generally I would be far more conservative (and probably more disappointed afterwards). Between the reports from others and my own experience of 23mg, I'm fairly comfortable that this is fine.

This is the make-or-break test for me. At a dosage pushing 50mg it’s already expensive as compared with a dose of MPA or 3-FPM, so it either needs to be supremely effective at this dose, or it’s going to look too expensive for repeat purchases.

N.B. Times logged are reset from the second dose, and not from the start of the experience.

T+20m Very little is happening apart from a slight increase in alertness and mental focus. More tea is made. There is no great motivational boost and no great physical stimulation. Am content to do not a lot, which wasn’t really the desired effect. Patience, though, hopefully it’s still coming up.

T+40m Slight alerts of an “eyes open” awakeness, but still nothing to write home about. On the one hand this seems far more tolerable than eph/iph/3,4-ctmp, with no negative effects at all at this dose. However, the beneficial effect is *so* subtle that I can only just about distinguish it from placebo and perhaps from caffeine; I am still left with the feeling that this may not be a sufficient dose (but don’t intend to push it further today). I’m still no closer to finding the motivation to go sort the mower out and tackle the lawns, which was my intention in taking a stim, and at this stage, I feel like I’d have done better with a single dose of methiopropamine, both functionally and financially.

T+45m Some slightly unusual physical sensations are noted; my face feels as if it is tingling, although I am not unduly hot or anxious. Mild tension is felt in my shoulders. Nothing too desperately unpleasant; very mild as compared with the body load of eph/iph/3,4-ctmp. Also worth noting that by now I have drunk four or five pints of tea, which may be a not insignificant amount of caffeine. Stim dick is also noted, along with minor tingling in my arms. 

T+50m This does feel marginally unpleasant, at least in passing. Am hot, which may be down to a 5 degree increase in outside temperature or may be anxiety. There is, incidentally, an increase in anxiety provoked only by the consideration of anxiety, which rapidly passes. Mildly sweaty, again this is all very low key as compared with other similar stims and it remains the most tolerable of the phenidates I’ve tried. However, whilst the body load is minor, I would now find an equivalent oral dose of methiopropamine preferable in terms of side-effect profile, as well as function and cost. My feeling on 4-Me-TMP begins to turn mildly negative; I think I have found a dose at which it is active, and could push it higher on another day, but I suspect that the side effects might begin to outweigh the mild mental boost that this seems to provide. Certainly I have spent five or ten minutes being aware of the minor negatives, as opposed to getting off my arse and getting on with anything. Don’t feel too bad, physically, though - I’ve had far worse stims.

T+1h This drug is simply not going to motivate me; it looks like I will have to do that for myself. There is a slight cognitive boost, and I could imagine it being a good study drug, but it is not providing me with the desired kick up the backside. Subjectively, I am a little disappointed, but that may still be a question of dose. I drag myself outside to go and play with the mower, mainly because I want to be getting on with it by the time a friend arrives in half an hour or so.

T+2h Mowing is done, although it was harder and sweatier work than I anticipated. It wasn’t unduly warm outside, and I wonder if the drug had something to do with this. Wasn’t obviously working harder or faster than normal. Superficial social interactions with neighbours seem easy enough, comfortable, not forced. Friend arrives whilst I’m still working. Some mental sharpness persists, but there was no obvious benefit for physical tasks.

T+3h At the expense of keeping my friend waiting, I feel a lot better after a shower and am motivated into some attempt at multi-tasking, managing to roll smokes, make teas, put laundry on, empty and reload the dishwasher all in the space of about five minutes. Still don’t feel much beyond enhanced alertness and am probably being a bit rude / inattentive, but at least I’m getting something done.

T+5h Spent some time helping friend set up new phone, successfully after a few screw ups. No obvious effect now from the 4-Me-TMP, though some irritability was noted. Nothing major, or necessarily all that out of the ordinary.

T+5h30m Yawning, feel tired. Admittedly, some cannabis has now been smoked, but I’m not sure there is any connection, more like I’ve been up since 8am and the 4-Me-TMP is wearing off. No great urge to redose, though I feel like I could if I wanted. Doesn’t feel greatly harmful, or greatly beneficial.

T+6h Brief appearance of the horn, suggesting any stim dick has worn off. Beginning to feel hungry, suggesting the experience is largely over, though either or both of these could be an effect of the cannabis. Regaining some equilibrium, no obvious comedown.

T+7h Feel back to baseline, not much to report.

T+8h30m Still happily socialising, no major comedown. Just eaten a light meal (panini) and enjoyed a glass of Rioja along with it. Report ends here; the effects of the 4-Me-TMP are gone and I’m heading towards a second glass of wine and a third spliff, so any further entries would probably be for the journal of irreproducible results.

Reflections

I cannot form a final view on 4-Me-TMP based on today’s testing alone, because I’m not completely certain that I’ve got the dosage right. My verdict so far is, at best, mixed. By the standards of the phenidates, it had no appreciable side effects, providing a relatively clean alertness, although this was mild at best and a 50mg dose is probably the minimum that I would consider in future (not a regular stim user). I found it preferable to eph, iph, etc.

On the other hand, a 50mg oral dose was not unduly impressive as compared with a 50mg dose ot 3-FPM or a 50mg dose of MPA, either of which is a fraction of the price. Maybe it will do something magical at 75mg or 100mg that justifies paying a premium, but I haven’t seen it yet. On balance, this was probably slightly better for mental focus than MPA, but less effective as a general purpose stim, at identical doses. My overall view, whilst I’m glad to have tried it, is not yet especially positive. However, I'm tempted to try higher doses or to mix it with other things, neither of which is a bad sign.
Reply
#2
Nice report. I agree with pretty much everything you said and did think my dosages would rpobably be on the low side for most.  The price is very high as well so for a lot of people the other stims probably do look pretty good but personally I got more activity with this than MPA at equivalent doses but when 3g of MPA cost the same as a G of this I do think people will find it hard to justify the cost.
"To fall in hell or soar angelic you need a pinch of psychedelic".
Humphry Osmond to Aldous Huxley (in a book)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxGqcCeV3qk
Reply
#3
Just wait until every vendor and their mothers sell it; inevitably falls to MPA/EPH price levels then.
Reply
#4
Good work Magick - MPA is proving hard to beat within the parameters of legality and the current state of the market
"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law"
Reply
#5
Follow-up report, 3 days later, 80mg ingested @ 17:45


Set & setting: at home, alone, mood benign but tired. Not feeling very sociable. Two full days since my previous experiments, no other stims used over this period. 80mg weighed and ingested in a gel cap at 17:45 hours.

T+12m Slight stim dick is noted, along with an unusual ease of urination. Typing feels a little weird, as if fingers are seized. Decaffeinated tea is made, but not yet consumed.

T+15m Feel hot, and a little anxious. A pint of water is consumed, never a bad idea when taking stims, and a jumper is taken off. Hands still feel a bit peculiar, which is a bugger as I was looking to do some music practice. Decide to watch iPlayer instead for the meantime. An Amazon order arrives, a new screen protector for my phone. Decide this is not a job to do whilst my dexterity seems impaired and my hands feel funny.

T+20m First alerts of mental stim, enhanced alertness, brightness. Tingling in hands is now very slight, my fingers feel cold but rolling a cigarette or typing is still possible without great difficulty.

T+25m Not got around to watching iPlayer yet. There are hints of something compulsive here, like maybe I don’t want to sit around and feel like I have to be doing something. Half a cigarette is smoked but I don’t much enjoy it.

T+40m Been playing accordion for a while, dexterity isn’t a problem, hands have warmed up. Definite cognitive alertness, it’s not a completely impenetrable or compulsive stimulation, but there is certainly a mental boost at this dose. Not obviously euphoric or recreational, but pleasant rather than not. I have the feeling it would enhance creative and cognitive ability at this dose, although I’m not sure for me that it would actually increase my mental focus or work output. Mild body load, no great increase in heart rate or tension, but some signs of (mild) vasoconstriction. Not unpleasant by any means, though it still perhaps lacks something - not sure what.

T+1h Tea drunk, remainder of cigarette smoked, text messages dealt with, no arrangements made, more or less decided on an evening at home. Though there is still some alertness, it feels like any initial “rush” of positive mental energy is subsiding, and I am still aware of feeling tired in spite of being more alert. It is mildly pleasant, but doesn’t feel compulsively motivating in any particular direction, and it would be tempting to think I am already over the peak. One hopes not.

T+1h15m With nothing better to do, I decided to get on and apply the new screen protector to my phone. Always a fiddly job, but it went smoothly and I am happy with the end result. During this period a minor gastrointestinal discomfort was noted, not severe or persistent. That done, I feel bored. I had half intended to make arrangements for this evening, and I am half regretting not doing so, but not actually minded to do anything about it.

T+1h30m More decaffeinated tea is made, during which the dishwasher is emptied, reloaded and started. Not in much of a mood for housework, but may as well not miss the opportunity. Whilst making tea, the mild feelings of nausea or biliousness recur. Not extreme or unbearable; only the same as I experience on other phenidates and less severe than on most, but I am now convinced that this is a side effect of the drug. Doesn’t seem more pronounced at 80mg oral than it did at lesser doses, and I stress that it is very mild. No pain, no retching, no vomiting - just a very slight feeling of nausea, mild enough that it wouldn’t put me off repeating this dose (though I still think I prefer MPA). There is also the emergence of a mild dysgeusia, a slight off taste in my mouth, which I think I experienced the last time as well. Again, nothing unpleasant, mildly salty at worst - nothing like the metal mouth from zopiclone, but both minor negatives as compared with 3-FPM or MPA.

T+1h35m I’ve been studiously trying to avoid consuming either caffeine or cannabis at the same time as 4-Me-TMP, because I wanted to experience it without too many other compromising factors. There has been far less in the way of sweating and anxiety from a single 80mg dose than I experienced on my previous doses (23mg + 49mg), which suggests either that the popular advice about avoiding caffeine when on MPH and derivatives is correct or that the previously noted sweating and anxiousness, if not mediated by caffeine, was mediated by anxiety rather than caused, reproducibly, by the drug. There was a slight increase in body temperature early on in the experience, but I am now quite comfortable in a T-shirt (though my feet are noticeably cold and stim dick is still very present). However, the effect of the 4-Me-TMP, whilst mildly amenable, is still less than I was hoping for, and the temptation to smoke some herb (or drink some wine, or take some other mind-altering substance) is growing. Again I have the feeling that this is a drug that inherently tempts me to mix it with others, rather than satisfying me in its own right, though of course that’s entirely subjective.

T+1h45m I am bored. On the one hand, I am pleased to report that an 80mg oral dose of this is more than tolerable, there is some positive cerebral effect (enhanced alertness), my functionality is not greatly impaired, my mood is fine but, as with the 50mg dose, this drug isn’t going to motivate me, merely wake me up a bit. Even that doesn’t feel guaranteed, I feel like I could sleep if I wanted to (probably untrue) in spite of the slight boost. More worryingly, I feel like I could cheerfully take another 80mg and repeat every couple of hours ad nauseam. Or like I could happily add 50mg of eph, or the same of MPA or 3-FPM. None of these is actually a clever idea; I imagine taking another 80mg might do bugger all, or might send me scurrying for benzos, or might send me scurrying for the loo. It has to be said, my temptation is less to binge on 4-Me-TMP (though of simple damned curiosity, I could) and more towards taking a subjectively more enjoyable drug.

Whatever, I’m not even two hours in at 80mg oral and it still feels like it needs either boosting or changing. I contemplate railing a dose, but doubt that a 20mg nasal topup would do much for me at this stage. I contemplate plugging a dose, but if I were minded to a stim binge I’d have stopped writing and taken something else. Or started with something else. I still have the idea that this could be useful as a study drug or as a complement in a blend. It’s not a complete waste of time, but I’m not feeling inspired to push the dose either. A black mark is given for this, at least for my purposes, as anything that leaves me wanting a redose after 1-2 hours simply requires me to spend too much time medicating. I am not efficient about this, and prefer stims that keep me happy for 2-4h or longer at a time.

T+2h If this is the peak of the experience you can keep it. Besides writing up the experience, which was supposed to be a sideline, I don’t really feel motivated to do anything. And no, that’s not evidence of focus on the report, I can’t be bothered. Feelings of nausea have subsided slightly, but are still there every so often. I decide I am not too keen on further stims at going on 8pm, and allow myself to roll a joint, but figure I can hold off on lighting it for a little while, just to see whether there is any further activity.

T+2h15m Stim dick is still present, still peeing like the council cart horse. Cold feet still noted, other than that no physical side effects to report. Still utterly bored. Decide to watch that programme after all, and thus to have another cuppa (decaf) and my smoke with it. I can’t really discern much of anything from the drug now, good or bad. Half tempted to go for a nap, just to see whether it’s possible. I’m still as tempted to redose with 4-Me-TMP as I am to light my spliff, but not sure I see any point.

T+2h30m Stuff it. A brief foray around the forums is uninteresting; some cannabis is smoked out of sheer boredom. Tea (decaffeinated) is made. Contrary to what I wrote earlier, I’m now finding it difficult to tear myself away from this rapidly-becoming-pointless report and vaguely ambivalent about going to watch that programme. I notice that I am smoking faster than usual; whether that’s the stim, or whether that’s simply because I’ve abstained for a number of hours, I don’t know. Whilst I’m busy damning the stuff roundly, I also observe that my typing is fast and accurate and that I seem intent on producing a wall of text about something I’m now telling you how much I don’t give a fuck about. Typical stim behaviour, that is, even if I would stand by the subjective view that it’s not doing anything. Walls of text are normal for me even without stims, but the speed and interest with which I’m producing this one suggests that at least some stimulant effect is still present, even if my conscious self is trying vehemently to deny it. That is interesting, and it mildly reawakens my curiosity about combining this with other things. I was thinking about other stims for functional use, but the addition of a small amount of cannabis seems to have loosened up my writing and restored my interest slightly.

T+3h15m Scratch that. Happily chatting on the shoutbox for the past 45 minutes, I never did get around to brewing my tea or watching that programme. Despite my general negativity towards this substance, there is (in spite of me) some evidence of increased focus, increased verbosity, increased will to communicate. The joint has satiated the need for “another drug” and I feel reasonably content, although previous physical observations persist as to cold hands and feet, stim dick, etc.

T+3h50m I finally get around to making another cup of decaf. I’m a little perplexed now; subjectively I’d still say that there is precious little useful stim, even from an 80mg dose. The objective evidence would suggest otherwise; this report continues (why?), I’m still chatting, and there are fairly definite signs of increased focus and verbosity, as well as continuing alertness. I still feel like it’s lacking something as a functional stim, but I can’t pin down quite what. On the other hand, there’s something quite benign and pleasant about it, and I can’t write it off as being useless either. It’s still by far the nicest and most tolerable of the phenidates that I have tried, even if I don’t rate the stimulation very highly.

T+4h10m Bored. Slight awareness of the alertness abating a little. Vaguely wish I’d done something more sociable with the evening; this hasn’t been as productive as I had hoped. Mustn’t grumble, though, it doesn’t feel like a total waste of time.

T+4h30m Equipped with tea (decaf) and a second joint, and still bored, I go to watch that TV programme on iPlayer. Feels like I am slowing down now, both in writing and in doing, further confirming that there was some active stimulation going on before, even if I’d have sworn I was all but unaware of it. Minor sensations of tingling, like an understated pins and needles, to the face and arms. 

T+5h10m Nothing much to report; no major comedown, though there is an absence of the earlier stimulus. I still feel somewhat cold. Again I’m a little perplexed; the drug looks better in retrospect than it did at the time, and I still think this could be a candidate for combos.

Which brings me to an aside, a warning if you will. Whilst I haven’t been desperately keen on this chem, there is a deceptively subtle quality to it and it looks like a prime candidate for compulsive redosing, even amongst those not so inclined. I have largely resisted - but on the first day I took this chem, I was happy to follow up a 23mg dose by doubling it, and I felt then like I could cheerfully redose, or I could cheerfully combine it with something, it feels as though safe and benign enough, and understated enough, that I keep wanting to give it some more “oomph”. 

That raises a danger flag for me; I’ve never felt quite so inclined to combo as with 4-Me-TMP (this is not my natural mentality), and the hint of something good makes me more inclined to push the dose or to redose than with most other stims. Logic usually prevails, and it largely has in this case, but for the first time, I start to see personally what is meant by “reinforcing effects”. Despite not apparently having very much good to say about it, I’m crying “it’s not enough” and seeking to redose or to combo it. For obvious reasons I haven’t rushed into any such thing, but the urge has been there every time I’ve used it, and that feels like more than idle curiosity.

Reflections

My overall verdict is still mildly negative; even at an 80mg dose I didn’t feel particularly motivated, stimulated or satisfied, although I can recognise from my activity and writing patterns that it could be more apparent I’m on stims than I realise. Whilst there was a temptation to redose, based on the difference between 50mg and 80mg, I’m not sure how much benefit there would be in going higher at a single dose. If anything, smaller divided doses might be the way to go. So I’m confused. I say I don’t like it, but it hasn’t antagonised me enough to rule out taking it again. The 80mg oral dose was subjectively “better” than 50mg and it is a dose that I would not rule out using again either, but I don’t regard it as cost-effective at current pricing, and for me, it's still lacking something unquantifiable that kind of makes me want to use more of it, and kind of makes me want to combine it with something else. 

I am aware that this is a self-contradictory and ambivalent report, and that sums up exactly how I feel about this chem. On the one hand, I would damn it with faint praise, on the other hand, I'm quite pleased that I picked up a gram rather than 250mg and can see some further testing (perhaps at lower doses) in the offing. 
Reply

Reddit   Facebook   Twitter  




Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)

   
DISCLAIMER
Any views or opinions posted by members are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the UKCR staff team.