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4-Fluoroethylphenidate (4F-EPH) intravenous - health warning
#1
Let me start with some wise word from internet guy i have never known; When you married the needle, It won't sing divorce paper.
Firstly, Sorry for my ENGRISH(see what i did there?)
Before starting my post i have to give information about myself;
-I have a Generalized Anxiety Disorder and Panic attacks from impure ethylphenidate IV let me open this up little bit more;
Ordered some crystal ethylphenidate from spain, received powder tried my usual IV doses 50-100mg it did not produce any rush before 5minutes this was really disappointing and decided to go 150 mgs, it really hurts my chest thought i got an heart attack, or will do and lay down in bed for 3 days. After that i got massive panic attacks and anxiety. This will can be your guide, do not order from foreign vendor.
As you can understand i have a high tolerance to stimulants( i decided to write my 4f-mph trials too) but i've started with lowest dose after doing allergy test on my skin, nose and mounth.
started with 15 mg bumps and go up to 50mgs anywhere between thoose and below the 50line it produces slight stimulation and little to no euphoria, my first 50mg IV dose triggered panic attack but i'm fine with 40mgs now. Anyway, i'm kinda binging for 10 days done 1.2g and my 4f-eph arrived yesterday, we did ( my girlfriend joined) allergy test and decided to go with 10-12mg snorting, we started feeling in 15 minutes and come-up was exciting like old good Crystal Ethylphenidate, it produced good body high(Little warming up in chest, slight light headdiness) and little to none mind-stimulating we have done 350 mgs since last night, mostly IV route but i have to say this; This compound is more toxicating than ethylphenidate, 25mg doses makes my heart pound around 140bpm, i've said it is heavy stuff, heavier than anything I've done it plays more with blood preassure than ethylphenidate, more jitteryness and THE RUSH is not there, it lacks something i dont know.




Midterm effects;
Paranoia, Anxiety, Angryness, makes memory kinda foggy. I've decided to kill myself but my girlfriend stopped me. So, treat carefully, always start low even if with high tolerance it is active at 15mg via snorting ROA also it is active 10mg with IV Route, did not tried oral or anyother route.
It is more caustic than ethylphenidate, if you are decided to mix up with water use at least 100 units of water for 25mgs. If you've find that not necessary taste the water.
Also, missing shots hurts bad more than ethylphenidate or 4f-mph but it stays there for 2 to 3 hours.

We Felt muscle tremors and squeezing( it means not from my panic attack)

Final note:
4f-mph and 4f-eph is like between methylphenidate and ethylphenidate like this; MPH--4f-mph----4f-eph----EPH. I hope my report will help, it also my first long report so be kind to me please!!

sincerly,
your fellow guinea-pig friend!

EDIT:
YOU CAN ALWAYS DO MORE, BUT CAN'T DO LESS.

magick edited 19-01-2016 01:51 AM this post because:

We have moved this post (and subsequent replies) to a thread of its own under Harm Reduction, to which a link will be provided from the chemical thread. Since the OP wishes it to stand as fair warning to others, we think it belongs there.

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#2
(16-01-2016, 10:14 AM)DarthNDach Wrote: [4F-EPH following on from 10 day intravenous 4F-MPH binge with history of I.V. ethylphenidate use which led to anxiety disorder and panic attacks after an experience that caused chsst pain and possible heart injury ...]
we have done 350 mgs since last night, mostly IV route but i have to say this; This compound is more toxicating than ethylphenidate, 25mg doses makes my heart pound around 140bpm [...] blood preassure [...] jitteryness [...] Paranoia, Anxiety, Angryness, makes memory kinda foggy. I've decided to kill myself but my girlfriend stopped me [...] muscle tremors
[...]
I hope my report will help, it also my first long report so be kind to me please!!

sincerly,
your fellow guinea-pig friend!

The kind response to this is: Please get some help for your drug use. What you're describing is very clearly self-destructive and if you keep heading down this path, there's only one way it will end. And it's not even a very long path.

You're not a guinea-pig and this isn't research. You're a human being and you're slowly killing yourself in order to keep doing something that doesn't even sound fun. It reads more like a cry for help than a report.

You don't have to keep doing this to yourself.
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#3
(16-01-2016, 11:28 AM)niflheim Wrote: The kind response to this is: Please get some help for your drug use. What you're describing is very clearly self-destructive and if you keep heading down this path, there's only one way it will end. And it's not even a very long path.

You're not a guinea-pig and this isn't research. You're a human being and you're slowly killing yourself in order to keep doing  something that doesn't even sound fun. It reads more like a cry for help than a report.

You don't have to keep doing this to yourself.
this does not include any respect BUT following parts is do: Doing any research chemical means taking risk. Reading reports does not ease that risk at all.
Respectively, thanks for being concerned about someone who posted and behaved reckless. I was having fun while i was writing down that report, as you know doing research chemicals haven't tested on any vivo makes you test subject as like guninea-pig.But i'm agreeing that it doesn't enjoyable at any second not to me not even to my girlfriend at all. If there is anything wrong with this situation it's all the substance as far as i can think. As i've said before, it shows more caustic behaviour on human cells, My friends nose bled after first dose(NASAL) Her nasal pathway is sensitive okay but did not bled after snorting lines of ethylphenidate. I want to light up this, Side effects didn't only effected me, they effected my friend too, so there is no crying for help, i have to say my health issues for clearing the information at that report, i have not changed any event or moment. I want to say it again i kept the report personal because of my panic disorder.

I wasn't posting or sharing my experiences because of this behaviour at other forums, but i felt this is must to situation because of lacking of information binging, dosing and extreme routes of administration...

I want to say more things but you know peoples always look in some personal window and they can't(don't, won't, do not want to) see what behind that bricks.My purpose was helping anyother researchers who's excited, i did not share my own toughts for anyother substance which i tried before people. So, for summing up i want to share my own tought for life; Don't be an statistic, being statistic means you're dead.

Also i want to say i'm writing a novel which is decorated carefully with Harm-Reduction parts, Not teaching but showing the path of rational thinking about street and designer drugs one by one.You can think its shallow but it includes goverments part, religious things too. thumbup thumbup



Don't be so serious, life is just a moment and that is now. Be happy, be whatever you want.
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#4
Man, you said "I've decided to kill myself...."

That's heavy shit to be reading and "not be so serious".
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#5
(16-01-2016, 12:37 PM)BobsBK Wrote: Man, you said "I've decided to kill myself...."

That's heavy shit to be reading and "not be so serious".
I tried As far as being thrustworthy as i can, paranoias and coming-downs after binging new substances make me think like that, i wasn't thinking as normal human being but paranormal activities as my own perception was so hard, and can't bearable at all. I was highlighting having a friend near saved my life, maybe others who face up this situation and will survive without friend remembering that words( Or decide having tripsitter when doing substances makes deliriant-used like effects)

I'm guaranteeing every thing to myself before acting, its part of anxiety if any information missed and i have already acted; irrational thinking and believing your minds illusions is not your choice.

(You can understand mind-stimulation is not lacked with my long posts or believe this being misunderstand is my biggest fear at all (i can't decide maybe both??))
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#6
Try to post at Bluelight, they say the sites for harm reduction, but it seems most of the users are IV users who chase the dragon.. Good to see some concern for another fellow researcher. That usage sounded dangerous.

This chem seems to have that phenidate vibe where a little more can easily make your heart beat faster and making you feel like shit the next 3 hours..
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#7
(16-01-2016, 12:30 PM)DarthNDach Wrote: I wasn't posting or sharing my experiences because of this behaviour at other forums, but i felt this is must to situation because of lacking of information binging, dosing and extreme routes of administration...

I want to say more things but you know peoples always look in some personal window and they can't(don't, won't, do not want to) see what behind that bricks.My purpose was helping anyother researchers who's excited, i did not share my own toughts for anyother substance which i tried before peoplel.

I'm not sure your report really tells us much aside from highlighting that intravenous use of stimulants is risky and leads to compulsive use and long binges despite the severe side effects.

It's easy to hide behind the idea that this is research, as if its purpose is noble and scientific. But we're drug users. We share reports to help each other use drugs in safer, less harmful ways. I think everyone should be able to evaluate the risks and benefits of the drugs they use and the way they use them and make their own decisions. But honestly, you seem to have made poor choices and you're multiplying risky behaviours. Not just i.v. use, not just extended binging, but binges of i.v. use involving multiple new chemicals with limited human use even by less risky routes, continuing after previous heart issues

I don't think that kind of use is really justifiable. I doubt it really makes sense to you either outside of the cognitive distortions that extended high-dose simulant use can produce. We're a harm reduction site, but what other response is there except: this is not safe; it's not sustainable: and it will continue to damage you until you stop or it kills you.
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#8
Blimey.

Late to the party as usual, but (with no judgement or unkindness intended, and with true appreciation for your (very respectable efforts to write an honest and thorough report in a non-native language) I have to agree with niflheim that what you describe strays outside the territory of reasonable or responsible research (we all have our own threshold for this, I suppose), beyond the territory of 'reckless, but it happens' and into the territory of wilfully self-injurious.

My basis for that view is not the presence of anxiety disorders, or even the use of intravenous administration (though we might sound strong notes of caution in both cases), but the fact that you have described what sounds like a horrendous experience from the outset, both physically and psychologically, yet you have (in full awareness of immediate physical and mental harms) repeated that experience, to the point of paranoia and suicidal ideation. 

It is accurate to describe this as a self-destructive course of action; you should not take this as a judgement on yourself, your intentions, your communication with us or on anything beyond what was said. I think it is fair to say that your report gives concern for your mental health, that consumption of stimulants at high doses is a contributing factor (and sometimes the causal factor) for psychosis, and that the only sensible response we can make to your report is along the lines of (as niflheim said) "you don't have to keep doing this to yourself".

Your subsequent question (You can understand mind-stimulation is not lacked with my long posts or believe this being misunderstand is my biggest fear at all (i can't decide maybe both??)) is, perhaps, the only part of the discussion to which I might have some useful input. 

I also produce long (and sometimes rambling) posts without any psycho-stimulants, but in my case it is linked not to diagnostic labels of GAD or panic disorder, but Asperger's syndrome, dyspraxia and bipolar disorder. Unusually, for a Brit, I took two foreign languages to A-level and one to degree level, so in saying I appreciate the effort, I mean it, and nor are there any errors in translation. So, I can easily understand your writing style as the product of who you are rather than of what you have taken; I would agree that your anxiety (of being misunderstood, of avoidance of misunderstanding, of ensuring you include adequate detail, of feeling judged, of panic attacks, of anxiety itself) is perhaps a part of the issue. 

However, I also suspect (I am not a doctor, this is my opinion and not medical advice) that your anxiety may be a symptom as opposed to the entire problem, and that GAD might be an under-diagnosis of the situation that you describe to us, i.e. it is an accurate description of one of your symptoms, but it may or may not be the cause of them.

Specifically, what you've first described as regards impulse control, risk awareness and substance use, of paranoia, of suicidal ideation, of being misunderstood or of being labelled will be recognisable to those acquainted with bipolar disorders. It is possible that the problem is triggered by drug use and not symptomatic of an underlying psychiatric illness, but, it's also possible that your willingness to do so and lack of inhibition suggests an episode of mania. You mention this was closely followed by suicidal ideation, which could suggest a mood/affective disorder (such as bipolar) in addition to GAD or panic disorder.

Secondly, and admittedly on limited evidence, your descriptions of anxiety, panic, fear of misunderstanding or of being misunderstood, of your inclination to write at length to avoid misunderstanding or imprecision, of your apparent feelings of being harshly judged here (you're not, but we do urge you to seek help for self-injurious behaviour) may be recognisable to those with a social and communication disorder, such as an autism spectrum disorder. This feels like a long shot on a small amount of evidence, and it may not apply to you. However, you may wish to rule in or out any undiagnosed developmental disorders, particularly if you should feel that you have any social or communicative difficulties not fully described by your diagnosis of GAD.

Please take this constructively. I do not assert either of these suggestions as matters of fact, but of opinion. They arise because you describe an instability of mood and behaviour that is not implied by the diagnosis of GAD. You also describe and display a set of anxieties around social and communication issues; perhaps these are nothing more than manifestations of GAD (which labels your anxieties as excessive in general). Or, just as plausibly, you might have a legitimate anxiety around social and communication difficulties because of a history or a continuing reality of such difficulties. If that is the case, it would be an injustice to you for any such difficulties to be swept under the carpet of "generalised anxiety disorder".

I hope that this proves helpful in due course. In the short term, I can only echo the advice and the warnings given already. Please do consider seeking medical assistance to get off the stims sooner rather than later, and hopefully more painlessly than you might otherwise receive it.

Regards - magick
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#9
Cyclothymia, BPD, and depersonalisation disorder can also manifest themselves as that sort of anxiety, particularly when associated with impulsivity.
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#10
(18-01-2016, 02:35 AM)Ozle Wrote: Cyclothymia, BPD, and depersonalisation disorder can also manifest themselves as that sort of anxiety, particularly when associated with impulsivity.

Entirely correct by APA standards, i.e. if you are in the USA and using DSM-V as your diagnostic manual. In most of Europe, we use ICD-10 from the World Health Organisation, which takes a more wide-ranging definition of "mania" and "hypomania" (see F30 et seq.) and (correctly, in my view) considers a wider set of affective disorders having both manic and depressive features as being under the bipolar spectrum.

I myself was once seen at the Maudsley Hospital by a consultant who'd arrived straight off the boat from the US and trained in DSM-IV, and in addition to (previously established) Asperger's, he sought to diagnose me with none other than 'cyclothymic disorder' and 'generalised anxiety disorder'. These would be correct under DSM-IV (don't know about -V) which takes a much more narrow approach to 'mania' and therefore to 'bipolar disorder'.

About a month later, the same presentation was diagnosed (correctly at the time) by a UK psychiatrist using ICD-10 as 'bipolar II disorder', i.e. characterised primarily by depressive symptoms with infrequent episodes of mania. A year or so after that, I presented with an episode of mania (with psychotic symptoms, falling short of the criteria for Type 1) and the diagnosis was updated to 'bipolar affective disorder', again in accordance with ICD-10. Under DSM-V, all of the above would fall under cyclothymia, but ICD-10 adopts a more fine-grained resolution.

Over here, BPD is referred to as "emotionally unstable personality disorder" (with a variety of subtypes incl. borderline). My personal opinion - as with terms like 'generalised anxiety disorder', 'oppositional defiant disorder', 'pathological demand avoidance' etc. is that these are unhelpful as diagnostic labels. They tend to constitute a statement of the bloomin' obvious symptoms, not a diagnosis of why those symptoms occur. 

I know very little about depersonalisation disorder, but from a quick reading I have two observations. Firstly, it seems to be another example of describing a set of symptoms from a biopsychosocial model as opposed to investigating the problem (effectively, can we find any reason to blame the patient before we treat their their condition as a psychiatric illness?). Secondly - assuming we're using ICD-10 - it's classified as a neurotic disorder and it is noted that the diagnosis "should not be given in certain specified conditions, for instance when intoxicated by alcohol or drugs, or together with schizophrenia, mood disorders and anxiety disorders". It would seem, then (based in the assumption that what we use here is ICD-10), that this diagnosis would not be given in the presence of mood or anxiety disorders. 

Thank you for the input, though. My initial response did implicitly assume the use of criteria from the World Health Organisation and ICD-10, not from the American Psychiatric Association and DSM-V. If the OP is in a country where DSM-V is the accepted standard, you may be correct about cyclothymia, in particular, as the definition of 'mania' is far more restrictive. Useful reminder that standards are not the same across the world.

By the ICD-10 standards, and with no judgement or offence intended towards the OP, I believe that anxiety disorders and personality disorders may be an under-diagnosis or, at best, a partial statement of the problem. Such diagnoses are not normally given in the presence of identifiable psychiatric illness, and can thus be seen as "fobbing off" those patients who have a psychiatric illness but have not managed to convey the full clinical picture to a psychiatrist in a 30-minute appointment. Unfortunately, misdiagnosis is more the norm than the exception, at least where bipolar disorders are concerned, which is why some 85% of patients are not correctly diagnosed the first time around, and it takes an average of 13 years from first presentation to correct diagnosis

The same can also be said of Asperger's syndrome, albeit for different reasons. Both conditions are under-diagnosed in the adult population because of improvements by leaps and bounds in clinical understanding over the last 25 years. As said previously, that doesn't make either one of them a 'nailed-on' certainty, and putting an international context on it is useful, but I regard it as highly plausible that an autism spectrum disorder, an affective disorder or in some cases both can go undiagnosed, sometimes for decades.
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