• 1 Vote(s) - 3 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5


3-FPM - chronic high dosage use - stories, discussion, experiences, info... Anything!
#61
(09-03-2018, 07:20 AM)niamh Wrote: I used phenidates for about three years, moving from ethylphenidate to 4-methylmethylphenidate to 4F-MPH. I didn't taper off, so much as run out and move through a series of increasingly shit stimulants until they weren't doing anything for me. And then I stopped and slept for a week. That was over a year ago. I've had brief periods of use in the time since, each time ending when I ran out and intentionally didn't get more. I don't have the self-control to use stimulants in a non-compulsive way - the only way I stop is by not having stimulants around to use.

You're not reckless, irresponsible or an idiot - stimulants are highly compulsive and anyone can end up in your situation because those behaviours are the exact behaviours that stimulant use induces in many people.

I really appreciate the kind words on this forum as opposed to certain forums who would merely bash someone for "being an idiot".

I started on stimulants over 10 years ago, but it was nothing more than a night out partying with cola or mdma every few months.

It wasn't until I was in my early 30's that I was diagnosed with adhd and prescribed concerta.

Long story short: Was diagnosed as a depressed alcoholic 5 years ago (I stay away from booze at least), then 3 years ago, that diagnosis was moved to ADHD.

I had not touched coke or mdma for about 3 years. As soon as I was prescribed methylphenidate, within a week I was hooked!

I would typically run through my prescribed 72mg/day in about 20-25 days and would either take a couple of days off (in misery) but for the most part: Grab some ethyl, isopropyl, 4f-methylphenidate or 3-fpm to supplement the rest of the month.

Once again, change of diagnosis: PTSD (which has symptoms that include substance/alcohol abuse, depression, inattention and many more to boot).

Well I surely could not be prescribed any addictive medication anymore (young, textbook smart, doctor logic.) So I took matters into my own hands.

Hell, I could even responsibly dose crystal methamphetamine for a period (10-20mg daily, oral only and would ensure to liquify the crystal as soon as I got it to avoid my compulsion to snort things). Basically I was attempting to replicate the dose range for the prescription drug desoxyn (Pharmeceutical D-meth as amp sulfate is very uncommon over here except in prescription form).

I did not get high off of it, if anything, it felt like I was sober for the first time. Scattered thoughts became organized according to importance and time sensitivity. Instead of thinking "I should do this", I would just "do" without question.

Needless to say, this was only sustainable for so long as my tolerance built, and the human condition only wanted this back...."Perhaps I would try just once to see what the high is like" I thought to myself. It was then that I recognized how the addiction creeps up on meth, but my brain was so switched on that I was able to catch it in time.

3-fpm though is the one stim that grabbed me by the balls the most. I love it, yet hate it at the same time. I even commented to a friend that I used meth to function and 3-fpm to get high (no longer use meth even for functional purposes, laws are far too strict on it and I don't want to goto jail).

Thank you all for your support. The plan will be to take some time off work to sleep after this bag runs out. After all, I have had my stim free time since being removed from medication - usually a week after a 3-fpm binge when I would feel good again. I would goto the gym and harvest a fair amount of dopamine naturally. Will be supplementing with L-tyrosine and turn to modafinil if I really feel like I can't get out of the funk for a long period.

Regardless, I can not have 3-fpm anymore because I like it too much.

(10-03-2018, 03:32 PM)magick Wrote: This may or may not be a popular suggestion, but if you really want to make aqueous solutions of stims go further, buy a box of disposable syringes and plug it. I don't think I've done so with 3f, but certainly with similarly 'rough' things on the snout. I tend to find stims a bit selflimiting sooner or later... the week off sounds good... fitting the 'rough' around deadlines is the rough bit.

Your doses aren't obscene... we once talked down a guy who was 9 grams into a 25g bag of 3-FPM after three days... that's heading for stim psychosis, or already there, so hardly a recommendation. I'd probably stick at about your sort of doses, but they're not off the charts. The happy end to that tale, after a lot of reluctance, he apparently managed to trade what he had left for half an ounce of good herb, which was perhaps the best example of stim binge harm reduction I've ever come across. :-)

I have "boofed" a few times. I did not seem to notice effect though. As far as I know I was doing it correctly (having boofed opiates a couple of times and is my preferred roa for 4-aco-dmt (holy shit, it becomes a different experience altogether and at half the dose of oral).

Perhaps I was expecting it to hit harder and I was already at my plateau. There is just something about that "punched in the nose" feeling that snorted 3-fpm gives me. I have grown to love this pain - as sadistic as that sounds.

Regardless, I will take your advice. Being as caustic as is, I can only imagine that strictly boofing will rot away my balloon knot, so rotating my roa sounds like a decent plan.
I can see it in my words, one of the big reasons I take way more than neccessary is because I seek out that "punch in the nose" feeling.

I guess one solution would be to dose orally, then tell a pissed off drunk bloke I got on with his ol' lady the other night and wait for a slug to the snout, haha.
Reply
#62
Eight hundred ninety-nine (899) adults with ADHD aged 18 to 65 years were evaluated in three double-blind, placebo-controlled studies of 5 to 13 weeks duration. Some short-term efficacy has been demonstrated for Concerta XL in a dosage range of 18 to 72 mg/day, but this has not been consistently shown beyond 5 weeks. In one study, in which response was defined as at least a 30% reduction from baseline in Conners' Adult ADHD Rating Scales (CAARS) ADHD Symptoms total score at Week 5 (endpoint) and analysed assuming subjects with missing data at their final visit were non-responders, a significantly higher proportion of patients responded to treatment with Concerta XL at doses of 18, 36, or 72 mg/day compared to placebo. In the two other studies, when analysed assuming subjects with missing data at their final visit were non-responders, there were numerical advantages for Concerta XL compared to placebo but a statistically significant difference in the proportion of patients meeting predefined response criteria was not demonstrated between Concerta XL and placebo. (Source: Concerta XL 54mg prolonged release tablets)

They no longer recommend it for use in adults for the same reason. I hate undue prescriptivism; the evidence for people abusing prescription ADHD meds is all but nonexistent and they tend in fact to moderate stim use. I'm on dexamfetamine (Amfexa, same as Dexedrine IR) 20mg tds, which is about as good as you can get here; it's good for ADHD but stimulating... barely at all. It's useful, but mostly because I can grab it and use it without the rigmarole of snorting. I still have things I can do that with, but effective ADHD treatment reduces the temptation. If you can still find methiopropamine where you are, it's not great to rail but it's damn close to an ADHD med when used orally.

Diagnoses are a mess. I was diagnosed ASD first, then GAD and cyclothymia, which became bipolar II, which became bipolar affective disorder. Both are tenuously identifiable, not misdiagnosed and still occasionally troubling... but neither of them amounts to sufficient to impede treating ADHD with dexamfetamine. There's a lot of stigma and BS around it, but the drug is useful I guess. Suspicions of complex PTSD last year / presently, but antipsychotics are not much use in ADHD, and treating that is probably still the best I can do.

3-FPM I was quite careful with (sensitive to possible adverse effects) but 2-FA was the same story for me... I think 40 or 50 grams of that disappeared before it disappeared. When I returned to a line or two of 3-FPM, it was clearly more euphoriant than most of what I went for routinely. Quite nice for a line or two; there was definitely a point of diminishing returns.

As for plugging, you make a valid point about relative bioavailabiity. For 4-AcO-DMT, agreed; I used to snort that at 50mg; plugging it at 25-30mg is nice. Tried 40mg knowing from a fellow researcher that it was quite a lot... ended up cocooned on the sofa for an hour or two. The amphetamines (mostly) seem to want damn near the equivalent of oral doses; I've plugged dexamp (30mg), 2-FMA (50mg), 3-FMA (same) and it works, but I'm not sure it offers much over oral. Railing most of those seems to want higher than oral doses; I still do sometimes. The upshot of all this is that (for dexamp at least), a regular oral dose will still produce an appreciable effect in the presence of 150-200mg of 2-FMA or 3-FMA snorted. Which is why orthodox ADHD treatment has its uses... I found things a lot edgier on MPH and analogues, not obviously superior.

I think the single biggest thing is having something you're happy with, doesn't have to be a drug even. The point is not lamenting what you haven't got; go for nice food, or indeed a psychedelic (50mg of 2C-D followed by 25mg 4-AcO isn't bad, either) but don't be puritanical with yourself. Maybe ginseng for a month? Then there's the age old ADHD medication...might even be legit where you are... I smoked half an oz a week through my degree, and did all right. Not suggesting trading one habit for another, mind you, but if there's a need to do something, do something. Just not what you're trying to avoid.

One more passing thought: you might try zinc supplementation (up to ~20mg/day);

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18416663
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article...ool=pubmed
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4692231/
Reply
#63
(10-03-2018, 08:30 PM)magick Wrote: Eight hundred ninety-nine (899) adults with ADHD aged 18 to 65 years were evaluated in three double-blind, placebo-controlled studies of 5 to 13 weeks duration. Some short-term efficacy has been demonstrated for Concerta XL in a dosage range of 18 to 72 mg/day, but this has not been consistently shown beyond 5 weeks. In one study, in which response was defined as at least a 30% reduction from baseline in Conners' Adult ADHD Rating Scales (CAARS) ADHD Symptoms total score at Week 5 (endpoint) and analysed assuming subjects with missing data at their final visit were non-responders, a significantly higher proportion of patients responded to treatment with Concerta XL at doses of 18, 36, or 72 mg/day compared to placebo. In the two other studies, when analysed assuming subjects with missing data at their final visit were non-responders, there were numerical advantages for Concerta XL compared to placebo but a statistically significant difference in the proportion of patients meeting predefined response criteria was not demonstrated between Concerta XL and placebo. (Source: Concerta XL 54mg prolonged release tablets)

They no longer recommend it for use in adults for the same reason. I hate undue prescriptivism; the evidence for people abusing prescription ADHD meds is all but nonexistent and they tend in fact to moderate stim use. I'm on dexamfetamine (Amfexa, same as Dexedrine IR) 20mg tds, which is about as good as you can get here; it's good for ADHD but stimulating... barely at all. It's useful, but mostly because I can grab it and use it without the rigmarole of snorting. I still have things I can do that with, but effective ADHD treatment reduces the temptation. If you can still find methiopropamine where you are, it's not great to rail but it's damn close to an ADHD med when used orally.

Diagnoses are a mess. I was diagnosed ASD first, then GAD and cyclothymia, which became bipolar II, which became bipolar affective disorder. Both are tenuously identifiable, not misdiagnosed and still occasionally troubling... but neither of them amounts to sufficient to impede treating ADHD with dexamfetamine. There's a lot of stigma and BS around it, but the drug is useful I guess. Suspicions of complex PTSD last year / presently, but antipsychotics are not much use in ADHD, and treating that is probably still the best I can do.

3-FPM I was quite careful with (sensitive to possible adverse effects) but 2-FA was the same story for me... I think 40 or 50 grams of that disappeared before it disappeared. When I returned to a line or two of 3-FPM, it was clearly more euphoriant than most of what I went for routinely. Quite nice for a line or two; there was definitely a point of diminishing returns.

As for plugging, you make a valid point about relative bioavailabiity. For 4-AcO-DMT, agreed; I used to snort that at 50mg; plugging it at 25-30mg is nice. Tried 40mg knowing from a fellow researcher that it was quite a lot... ended up cocooned on the sofa for an hour or two. The amphetamines (mostly) seem to want damn near the equivalent of oral doses; I've plugged dexamp (30mg), 2-FMA (50mg), 3-FMA (same) and it works, but I'm not sure it offers much over oral. Railing most of those seems to want higher than oral doses; I still do sometimes. The upshot of all this is that (for dexamp at least), a regular oral dose will still produce an appreciable effect in the presence of 150-200mg of 2-FMA or 3-FMA snorted. Which is why orthodox ADHD treatment has its uses... I found things a lot edgier on MPH and analogues, not obviously superior.

I think the single biggest thing is having something you're happy with, doesn't have to be a drug even. The point is not lamenting what you haven't got; go for nice food, or indeed a psychedelic (50mg of 2C-D followed by 25mg 4-AcO isn't bad, either) but don't be puritanical with yourself. Maybe ginseng for a month? Then there's the age old ADHD medication...might even be legit where you are... I smoked half an oz a week through my degree, and did all right. Not suggesting trading one habit for another, mind you, but if there's a need to do something, do something. Just not what you're trying to avoid.

One more passing thought: you might try zinc supplementation (up to ~20mg/day);

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18416663
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article...ool=pubmed
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4692231/

I must say, I am rather fascinated by this study and it seems to make so much sense. I never did become a non responder, mind you...I was not taking as prescribed (as low as 18mg one day just for depression and upwards of double my prescribed dose on particularly long days). I would also break the time release mechanism and fortunately, was satisfied with oral dosing.

Too much of a pain in the ass and time consuming to dilute a Concerta tab and separate the salts from the wax which was a good thing for myself.

What bothers me is that I attribute my mis-diagnosis to my current stimulant abuse disorder. Not blaming the drug here, it was my choice to go against doctors orders, but hell. When given poor mans cocaine everyday for free, why the hell not?

I sure as hell know that had I not been suddenly cut off my regimen, I would most likely not be caught up in this mess. The worst part about it is the Doc cut me off cold turkey on December 18th, right before Christmas. Told me to come in to the office on Jan 2nd (holiday closure) if I was not feeling good.

Realistically, I feel I was put in a very dangerous situation (had I not known about RC stims). The choice to cut me off this dose during the busiest time of year mixed in with horrid weather conditions. Well that certainly would have been a recipe for disaster if I was falling asleep at the wheel due to the sudden shock of being off my meds. Good thing I got my order of 3-fpm in 2 days after the docs decision.

Oh, and to add insult to injury, replaced my Methylphenidate with a prescription for Effexor. (Venlafaxin, an SNRI) This was even after I noted in my file that I had terrible reactions to 2 SSRI's that I had been prescribed in previous years. Merry Christmas to you too doc....

Dexedrine is generally the best you can get prescribed here, as Desoxyn (D-Meth) is rarely ever prescribed except for maybe extreme cases of ADHD and/or obesity.

Agreed, sounds like you are in a somewhat similar situation with the whole "slapping a label" diagnosis' that are so easily mixed and matched.

I guess I should stay away from 4-fa, not legal here anyway.

Haha, funny you mention 40mg 4-aco-DMT as that was the exact dose I took my first time boofing it. However, in my case it was the most beautiful, tear jerking experience I've encountered as of yet. My high tolerance and mindset of pushing things to the extreme led me to trying 60mg boofed a few weeks later. It was the first time I have ever had to abort a trip. Wow, didn't think I was coming back from that one.

MPH (and analogues) were a lot edgier for myself as well. The noted come down was pretty harsh compared to releasers in my experience.

You have hit the button on "having something I'm happy with". I have learned this through my many experiences with tryptamine compounds. I should go over my old journals actually. Many reminders I have written regarding guidance through life.

Ginseng, never thought of that. Would not hurt to give it a shot.

Yes actually, the "age old" medication is available for purchase at dispensaries here. Great for sleep and as an aphrodisiac (Some strains cause me a lot of anxiety though, so I stick with Indica). Perhaps I should look more into very low doses of strains that are good for ADHD. Probably the same Sativa strains that give me so much anxiety, but at a very low dose could be functional. I oddly have a super high tolerance to everything out there, but a gram of mj will last me about 30 sessions, haha.

I get what you're saying with trading one habit for another, but when given the choice of 2 potentially dark roads to walk down, I know that the one you suggested has a lot more light to it.

Speaking of which, I had forgotten to take my 50mg zinc tablet today, thanks for the reminder. Your suggestion of "up to 20mg/day" has me questioning whether or not this brand of zinc tablets has too much zinc in them.

You seem like quite an intelligent individual

Hmm, I'm not seeing that it's banned in Canada, yet do not see it for purchase from my main vendor. Perhaps I should look more into it. Again, a possible dark road, but I trust that it would certainly be better than the one I am on.

I really appreciate you taking the time to write out this much information for the sake of my well being, means a lot to me.

All of the kind words and guidance I have been given have been outstanding. You Brit's (guessing most of you who replied) are bloody alright. I have been a lurker on here for a while and noticed the tremendous amount of knowledge and support being passed around. Despite being across the ocean, I am glad I chimed in. Thank you all!
Reply

Reddit   Facebook   Twitter  




Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)

   
DISCLAIMER
Any views or opinions posted by members are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the UKCR staff team.